[Samper]

I have decided that I would like to remove my crushed coral from the bottom of my 20 gal and would like to either go bare bottom or get live sand. The problem with this is that I have been running a UGF. Would I be better to just leave it alone and let the outdated UGF do its thing? I've been worried about the buildup of detritus because my crushed coral pieces are rather large with various shells and junk mixed in. If I should go with the live sand how would I go about running my powerhead, cause the ugf setup wouldnt work with sand. If I went barebottom I might could leave the powerhead setup the way that it is. Any thoughts?

[Reefland]

1. Remove all livestock from your tank and put in a temporary holding tank.
2. Remove the current substrate and teh UGF (throw it away unless you have freshwater set-ups and want to use it for a back-up; keep the powerheads you use to run it.
3. Add the new substrate (if you plan to use any)and refill the tank with new ASW.
4. After the tank is clear, temp is correct and SG is correct, move the livestock back to the tank.

The UGF is a bad idea but your powerhead(s) should still be used for added water movement.

[Samper]

Would you go with a barebottom and move the powerhead to the bottom or would you put in live sand and let the powerhead stay where it is? I'm very interested in the sand and some of the critters that make use of it. I am also liking the idea of having everything up on "stilts" and being able to get rid of the buildup. I'm wondering what are the pros and cons of the bare/sand bottoms, surely nature is more perfect than our aquarium science and you cant find a barebottom ocean floor so......

I've read the posts on barebottoms on this forum and reef central but havent seen anything that particularly made me want to do one or the other.

[Reefland]

Originally Posted by Samper

Would you go with a barebottom and move the powerhead to the bottom or would you put in live sand and let the powerhead stay where it is? I'm very interested in the sand and some of the critters that make use of it. I am also liking the idea of having everything up on "stilts" and being able to get rid of the buildup. I'm wondering what are the pros and cons of the bare/sand bottoms, surely nature is more perfect than our aquarium science and you cant find a barebottom ocean floor so......

I've read the posts on barebottoms on this forum and reef central but havent seen anything that particularly made me want to do one or the other.

I have used both methods, DSB's and Bare-Bottom. I think both have advantages and disadvantages. Properly stocked DSB's have proven the ability to process nutrients, especially nitrate producing waste but can become problematic if not properly cared for and limit the amount of flow one can add to the tank. Bare-bottom tanks obviously do not provide any environment for bacteria and fauna to flourish which will process the same waste so other methods have to be employed, specifically frequent siphonings of said waste. This is made a bit easier if lots of random flow is provided to maximize the amount of waste that can be held in suspension and removed through other filtration means (i.e. protein skimmers).

Both menthods can be and are successful if the husbandry is adapted to the specific environment.

[Mezmo]

Scott,

What are your thoughts on Oolitic Sand beds? From what I have come to understand is that when you are using Oolitic Sand Beds you can achieve a de-nitrating effect in only 1 inch of sand. Personally I always enjoyed the PH balancing effect of crushed coral. All the LFS have recommended against using sand as it tends to clog up filters and stuff and is a nuisance when it comes time to vacuum crap off the bottom during maintenance. Sand gets sucked up easily using a python.

Still it is a viable option considering that a 6 inch DSB means you likely need a 30 inch high display tank.

Your thoughts?

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Mezmo

From what I have come to understand is that when you are using Oolitic Sand Beds you can achieve a de-nitrating effect in only 1 inch of sand.

You achieve denitrification when available oxygen decreases to the point that NO3 reduction becomes the most favorable respiratory pathway. This can be extremely close to the surface in silty marshes. In home aquaria it will vary depending on the particle size of the sediments. The finer the particle size, the closer to the surface the RDL (redox discontinuity layer) will be.

Personally I always enjoyed the PH balancing effect of crushed coral.

Crushed coral is aragonite. The sand beds most reefkeepers use in their aquaria are also aragonite, although some choose to go with regular silica based quartz sand. The only difference between a sand bed of crushed coral and a sand bed of aragonite sand is that the smaller particle sizes will have much more exposed surface area and thus more buffering effect.

The same surface area of crushed coral is equal to the same surface area of finer particle aragonite sands when it comes to buffering effects and colonization sites for beneficial bacteria. A cup of fine particle sand will have many times the surface area of a cup of crushed coral; therefore, fine particle sand beds are far superior to crushed coral in this respect.

All the LFS have recommended against using sand as it tends to clog up filters and stuff...

They will say anything to get you to buy their "filters and stuff."

... and is a nuisance when it comes time to vacuum crap off the bottom during maintenance. Sand gets sucked up easily using a python.

It is important to vacuum a crushed coral substrate regularly so that it doesn't trap detritus. You should never vacuum a fine particle sand bed. One of the benefits of a fine grain sand bed is that it will process the detritus for you.

[Samper]

This is all good knowledge but it didnt answer my question below reeflands post.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Samper

This is all good knowledge but it didnt answer my question below reeflands post.

Well, since your question is obviously addressed to Reefland, I will point it out to him.

[Samper]

It's not to reefland it's to anyone who can answer it. Sorry I didnt mean to be rude.

[Mezmo]

I've used bare bottom and crushed coral in my tank(s). The bare bottom is certainly easier to clean but It looks nicer having some sort of bottom. If you ever have had the opportunity to remove a thick layer of old substrate its quite nasty realizing all the heinous shmutz that gets trapped in there and it stinks like mad. Not to mention the dangers of unleashing death removing it.

I guess a reeftank might be somewhat different but if you like Puffers....

[Samper]

Originally Posted by Mezmo

Not to mention the dangers of unleashing death removing it.

I guess a reeftank might be somewhat different but if you like Puffers....

Would you care to elaborate on those statements? I'm relatively new to the hobby.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Samper

Would you go with a barebottom and move the powerhead to the bottom or would you put in live sand and let the powerhead stay where it is?

Scott (Reefland) has a 75-gal reeftank. He presently has a bare bottom tank but it previously had a fine particle sand bed. He decided that he wanted to try bare bottom because he wanted to run more water current without having the sand bed blowing around the tank. Since he was breaking down his tank anyway because of an unrelated problem with a red nuisance alga, he decided to try the bare bottom approach. He did mention recently that if he were setting up a large reef tank he would go back to a fine particle deep sand bed.

I'm very interested in the sand and some of the critters that make use of it.

Yes, that adds another dimension to your reef ecosystem that you wouldn't be able to experience with a bare bottom tank.

I am also liking the idea of having everything up on "stilts" and being able to get rid of the buildup.

If you have a fine particle sand bed that is at least 3" deep, the sand bed itself will take care of any buildup. In fact, it would be detrimental to the health of the sand bed to disturb its surface by stirring or vacuuming. The stirring chores would be handled by the sand bed's infauna and epifauna.

Putting the live rock on stilts so that you can blast under them to remove detritus is a different approach altogether. This is difficult to do with a fine particle sand bed but it is possible with either a bare bottom tank of one with a shallow large grain substrate.

I'm wondering what are the pros and cons of the bare/sand bottoms, surely nature is more perfect than our aquarium science and you cant find a barebottom ocean floor so.....

The benefits of a fine particle deep sand bed are that it is an excellent source of nutrient processing, it expands the choices of livestock that you can consider, it adds more biodiversity and complexity to your tiny ecosystem, and it provides food in the form of polychaete larvae, etc., for the other inhabitants of the tank.

The biggest disadvantage is that it can make it difficult to run really strong water circulation in the average size reef tank. My tank is 120-gallons with a 6" DSB and I am limited in the amount of flow that I can run without kicking up the sand bed. I have been told by people who have 500-gal tanks with fine particle deep sand beds that they do not have that problem.

Some hobbyists have experienced other problems with deep sand beds that may or may not be related to heavy metals toxicity which may or may not have been the result of poorly formulated artificial salt mixes. Other potential problems to watch out for would be a sand bed that does not support healthy, diverse infaunal populations. This can lead to clumping and other nasty complications.

There are successful reef tanks with deep sand beds, shallow sand beds, and no sand beds. There are even successful reef tanks with plenums. All are different approaches and all can be effective if maintained properly. All will fail if poorly maintained.

[Samper]

Thank you Ninong, that is the information I was looking for. Infauna and Epifauna are two new words in my reef vocabulary. Gonna research them now.

Is it possible to find white or black fine particle live sand?

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Samper

Thank you Ninong, that is the information I was looking for. Infauna and Epifauna are two new words in my reef vocabulary. Gonna research them now.

Is it possible to find white or black fine particle live sand?

Infauna means it is in the sand bed. Epifauna means it is on the surface of the sand bed.

Aragonite sand is naturally white. This is what most people use for reef tanks. Southdown (now called Oldcastle) Play Sand from the Caribbean is aragonite sand that is sold by Home Depot on the East Coast. It is very good and it is very cheap. You can probably find it near you.

Black sand is NOT recommended for a reef tank. It is volcanic in origin. You really want calcareous sand (aragonite).

[Samper]

Good information Ninong....Did you go to school for any of this stuff or is this just your hobby/obcession? The reason I ask is that I would like to go to school to possibly study some sort of marine science. Thinking marine medicine. Was a psychology major with a sociology minor but my interests have changed

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Samper

Good information Ninong....Did you go to school for any of this stuff or is this just your hobby/obcession?

It's just a hobby. Actually I'm really a newbie myself, but I like to be informed about anything I do, especially when there is so much mythinformation being freely handed out.

[Mezmo]

Just do a quick search and you'll read plenty of horror stories of people deciding to replace there substrate only to accidently unleash contaminants that were buried in the depths of the substrate. let sleeping dogs lie.

My Puffer comment was aimed at the FO folks. Puffers have to be somewhere near the top (if not the top) of the messiest food eater. Biting spitting food all over as the chew into dinner. I would guess my puffer eats about half of what he chews up. He just likes spitting food all over and then leaving it there for me to clean up.

I dont think an Oolitic sand beds can process the crap he spits out. Unless someone can recommend some type of hermit crab the Puffer wont eat its either bare bottom or a substrate I can vacuum.

I've read its possible to keep hermits with him but then theres always that story about the one puffer who died because he couldnt digest the whole hermit he swallowed. Knowing my luck that would be me.

Ninong, any recommendations for substrate with FO sloppy eaters or better yet are there any "Puffer-Safe" hermits? hehehe

[Samper]

Can anyone here recommend some schools for marine science that I can look into?