[duster]

Hi everyone

After several hours of researching threads in this forum, I have just joined as a member, as the info I've read seems to be very helpful, giving me alot to think about (more answers sometimes just lead to more questions, right?). I am hoping as a member I can gain some knowledge from all your experise regarding my own questions. Thank you in advance for your time and advice.
I am a newbie starting up a 12 gal. (small, I know) with live rock, planning on a few fishes and a team of hardy, tank-cleaning inverts. My original invert plan consisted of snails, a scarlet skunk cleaner shrimp (Lysmata amboinesis), a small sea star (Fromia or Echinaster), and some small hernit crabs. After researching this forum, I may not employ any hermit crabs, relying on an all-snail algae control team. I have two questions (for now) regarding snails, inverts, and coralline algae:
1) I am hoping to gradually grow the colorful coralline algae. Will snails consume coralline algae (as I've read crabs will), or only the undesirables?
2)With no protein skimmer, I am planning on replacing 15-20% of the tank water each week. This will also give the tank a fresh weekly supply of major, minor, and trace elements from the new, aged saltwater. Will this amount (15-20%/week) of fresh elements (like calcium, iodine) support the hardy inverts listed above, as well as coralline algae, without supplementation?

[Reefland]

Hi duster, Welcome to Reefland!

The choice to remove the crabs from your list is probably a good one, only because they have been known to attack the snails.

I would remove the star from the list as well, I don't know that a tank so small will promote enough food for one to eat. The snails are a good choice to help keep film algae under control and to fight off nussiance algae if it becomes a problem, but do not worry about them munching on coralline algae, they will not be able to eat it.

As for supplements, the water changes are very important whether using a protein skimmer or not, but water changes alone will not maintain proper calcium and alkalinity levels. There are many popular 2-part products available or you could drip kalkwasser nightly.

[duster]

Scott Z, Reefland

I appreciate your prompt reply.
I am seeking so much information, so I will try to spread my questions out, so as not to annoy anyone.
1) Regarding snails, I would like to use several varieties of both herbivorous and omnivorous, detritus-feeding snails. How many herb. snails do you recommend per gallon and how many omni. snails do you recommend per gallon?
2)I've read that coralline algae needs calcium to flourish. Does it also need phosphates and nitrates like undesirable algae? Because snails don't consume coralline algae, will it eventually grow on the panels of my tank? The back wall of my tank has a heater, sensor, PH, and cords on it, as well as LR stacked only 2-3 inches from it, so I am worried that I'll have a tough time keeping it clean of coralline algae over time. Is there any way or possibility of it growing only on the LR, not the panels?
3)If my tank is too small to sustain a small star (3"), especially with a shrimp and omni. snails, would it be possible to place food tablets under or near it? Or would you just simply not recommend one?
4)Are snails nocturnal, or does it depend on the type?

Thank You

[Reefland]

Originally Posted by duster

1) Regarding snails, I would like to use several varieties of both herbivorous and omnivorous, detritus-feeding snails. How many herb. snails do you recommend per gallon and how many omni. snails do you recommend per gallon?

Recommending anything on a "per gallon" basis is not a good way to go. Since you are only going with a 12 gallon tank, 5 Cerith, 5 Astrea and maybe 2 Turbo snails is what I would get.

2)I've read that coralline algae needs calcium to flourish. Does it also need phosphates and nitrates like undesirable algae? Because snails don't consume coralline algae, will it eventually grow on the panels of my tank? The back wall of my tank has a heater, sensor, PH, and cords on it, as well as LR stacked only 2-3 inches from it, so I am worried that I'll have a tough time keeping it clean of coralline algae over time. Is there any way or possibility of it growing only on the LR, not the panels?

Coralline algae does not need anything but proper calcium and alkalinity levels. Once it starts growing, the only way to stop it is to clean it from the areas you don't want it to be; like the glass panes or equipment. It will grow on glass definitely however it will start to grow on rock and plastic first.

3)If my tank is too small to sustain a small star (3"), especially with a shrimp and omni. snails, would it be possible to place food tablets under or near it? Or would you just simply not recommend one?

I simply would not get one unless perhaps you were interested in a small brittle star.

4)Are snails nocturnal, or does it depend on the type?

It depends on the type of snail. I have Cerith, Astrea and Turbo and they are all active day and night.

[patsfan1130]

Originally Posted by Reefland

Recommending anything on a "per gallon" basis is not a good way to go. Since you are only going with a 12 gallon tank, 5 Cerith, 5 Astrea and maybe 2 Turbo snails is what I would get.
Coralline algae does not need anything but proper calcium and alkalinity levels. Once it starts growing, the only way to stop it is to clean it from the areas you don't want it to be; like the glass panes or equipment. It will grow on glass definitely however it will start to grow on rock and plastic first.
I simply would not get one unless perhaps you were interested in a small brittle star.
It depends on the type of snail. I have Cerith, Astrea and Turbo and they are all active day and night.

The only thing I will add is that coralline tends to grow in high flow areas of the tank much better. so proper water movement is essential in growing lush amounts of the beautiful stuff IMO.


Mark

[duster]

Scott Z, Reefland,

Thank you again for your time. Your snail recommendation is helpful. My research in this area has turned up so many different stocking levels for maintenance crews that it is difficult for a newbie with no experience to figure out a good size crew for my tank. I don't want maintenance to be a chore, but I don't want inverts to starve and die, polluting my tank if I can't find and remove them. As far as the star goes, I will take your advice and not get one for this tank.

[duster]

To patsfan,

I appreciate your reply. I have a 3-stage filtration system rated at 10x and a Maxi-Jet
PH rated at 10x. Not full-blown reef numbers, but should be enough for a small LR setup w/ fish, shrimp, and snails. I was going to get a couple of dwarf feather dusters, as recommended by the books I've read, but posts in this forum have said some negatives, so I don't know. Thank You.

[Poseidon]

Just to chime in here... sounds like you are doing a lot of research which is fantastic, but before you go headlong into an uphill battle consider getting a larger tank. Things happen much more slowly with larger water volumes and things will just be simpler to maintain. The SMALLER tanks are MUCH harder to maintain then the larger ones!

[reverai]

I've actially found smaller much easier to maintain that larger tanks! I've had both and it only about 20 minutes per week to keep my Nano Cube in shape as opposed to hours for my 100 gallon tank. The fact, my Cube has no need for a filter or skimmer or sump really makes it easier than all the hardware one needs for a 100 gallon tank. I won't mention the 20 gallon water changes!

Steve

[duster]

Poseidon,

Thank you for your concern regarding the small tank. I am nervous about the higher potential for shifts in water parameters with such a small volume of water. I won't go into detail, but I basically had to make the decision between going small or not going at all, and I just couldn't fight the saltwater bug any longer. While the books I've read (including The New Marine Aquarium by Paletta and The Conscientious Marine Aquarist
by Fenner) advised against going small, they did prepare me for what I would need to do to make this size tank successful, such as not overstocking, very cautious feeding, much more frequent testing, and weekly water changes.

[duster]

reverai,

With the exception of having an Eclipse 12g versus a Nano, it sounds like your setup and livestock (from your profile) is almost identical to where I'm going. If you or anyone else out there with a tank <20g would like to e-mail me directly, I would love to read in much more detail about your setup(s), including detailed equip. and livestock, food types, feeding procedures, maintenance routines, and anything else you wish to share. Thank You.

[reverai]

Well, my system is more or less a basic Nano Cube beyond replacing the pump with a Mini-jet because it was to loud. I feed my fish and cleaner shrimp every other day. I change a gallon of water per week and use "Real Ocean Water" from Catalina Water. Right now only Petcom has it for $10 per five gallons.

I use bottled Walmart distilled water to top off the tank when I need too. I feed a mixture of frozen Prime Reef, Formula 1 and a good flake food every other day. I drop a few shrimp pellets for the snails per week. They all run to them and have a little feast. Mt tank doesn't have much algae in it and some times I worry my snails finding enough to eat.

Once a week I treat everyone to some brine shrimp. I bought my zoos at an LFS and got my live rock from Ebay($45) and my live sand($25) from someone local. I keep my water temp at between 78.8 and 80.1. My SG is at 1.024 and my CA at 450 and my AK at 3.1. The PH is 8.2. Actually as most of my water is ocean water, it matches what ocean waters generally is and my fish and plants seem to thrive in it. It also saves me from having to mix salt which is no small thing. I did use the salt mix Reef Cystals when I started because it has best balance of salt and AK!

I bought my clown fish from someone shutting down their tank which saved me from having to worry about their health as they were a year old! I bought my snails and shrimp locally too. I got my cheato macro algae from a local fish group meeting and it gave me my pods. Now I have quite a few who live in the plants and on the live rock. I don't add anything in terms of chemicals beyound Chemipure. No additives.

If I was using an Eclipse 12g I would upgrade the lights. Ebay has some 32 watt lights that go into an Eclipse 12g for $35!

Good Luck...
Steve