ich...

[Reefer769]

oh no... i think i finally ran into my frirst obsticle my fish have ich... at least i think they do. what are some side effects of ich? my fish dont seem stressed at all and seem to be swimming around normally, but they have all these white spots on them, and it isnt just a little one of my butterflies has it all over. what can i do to get rid of this nasty sickness? and is there anything i could have done wrong to cause ICh to start in my tank?? maybe to many microbubbles? maybe feeding to much? maybe having the light on to long or to short? i dont know what i could have done wrong...

[Reefland]

Ich isn't from overfeeding or micro bubbles, it is introduced into an aquarium through new un-quaratined and treated additions and can be a pain to get rid of. This is the first time I have read anything about you having Butterfly Fish, what kind did you add and how many?

There are some really great threads here about ridding tanks of Ich, I'll go and find a recent one and post the link for you.

Here these will keep you busy for a while.
http://www.reefland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12695

http://www.reefland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12661&highlight=ich

http://www.reefland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12537&highlight=ich

[patsfan1130]

oh no... i think i finally ran into my frirst obsticle my fish have ich... at least i think they do. what are some side effects of ich? my fish dont seem stressed at all and seem to be swimming around normally, but they have all these white spots on them, and it isnt just a little one of my butterflies has it all over. what can i do to get rid of this nasty sickness? and is there anything i could have done wrong to cause ICh to start in my tank?? maybe to many microbubbles? maybe feeding to much? maybe having the light on to long or to short? i dont know what i could have done wrong...

It could have manifested from a number of things. some of the more common are poor water conditions,poor diet,stress and introducing an already infected specimen to the tank. If you do in fact have Ich, you will need to quarantine all of the fish for 6 weeks. I recommend using the hypo salinity method. you will need a refractometer to bring your SG down slowly to 1.009 over 3 days time and keep it there. be very careful with water changes and monitor PH closely as well. Keep fish QT for 6 weeks & then bring your SG back up to normal over a 3 day period.

[Reefer769]

i dont have a QT...

[Reefer769]

how do you exactly soak fish food in garlic? i need some detail becuase ive heard of this so many times but i just dont get how im sopposed to SOAK garlic with the fish food, someone please help me out. oh by the way i have a Heniochus Butterfly.

[Reefland]

Garlic Extract, it is a liquid form.

[Ninong]

oh by the way i have a Heniochus Butterfly.

Which of the nine species of the genus Heniochus do you have? Do you think a 30-gal cube is appropriate for this species? Have you considered the possiblity that you may be moving too quickly in stocking your 30-gal tank and that this could be part of your problem?

[Reefer769]

a 30gal aquarium isnt appropriate for a heniochus butterfly?

wow, i didnt pay hundreds maybe even thousands of dollars to look at 2 tiny clownfish swimming in place all the time. i figured i mine as well just buy fish that i will enjoy or fish that would make spending all that money worth it.

[Reefer769]

it is a, Heniochus acuminatus

[Reefer769]

nvm its the Heniochus diphreutes

[Ninong]

a 30gal aquarium isnt appropriate for a heniochus butterfly?

wow, i didnt pay hundreds maybe even thousands of dollars to look at 2 tiny clownfish swimming in place all the time. i figured i mine as well just buy fish that i will enjoy or fish that would make spending all that money worth it.

Here is a link to information on the species you say you have: http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/Spec...ame=acuminatus

How many butterflyfish do you have in your 30-gal cube tank? You mention that "one of your butterflies" has it (white spots) all over. As you can see from the fishbase link I provided, your Heniochus acuminatus has a maximum adult size of 25 cm (10"). Butterflyfish do best when they have ample swimming space. A 30-gal cube tank is probably not a good idea for this species.

I remember that you were asking about possibly putting a clown triggerfish and a yellow tang in this tank, but I don't remember anything about putting "butterflies" in it, so I assume you did your own research first and were satisfied that it was a good move.

Outbreaks of Cryptocaryon irritans are frequently associated with stress and it is possible that stress could be a factor in your situation.

You can try soaking the fish food in a garlic extract, such as Kyolin, but it may not be effective enough to resolve your outbreak if it is already widespread. A better option would be to remove the fish to a sterile quarantine tank and treat with either copper sulfate or hyposalinity.

Good luck,

[Ninong]

If your "butterflies" are all Heniochus diphreutes, here is a link to fishbase: http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/Spec...ame=diphreutes

And here is what Robert Fenner has to say about them on www.wetwebmedia.com "Heniochus diphreutes Jordan 1903, Schooling Bannerfish.(1) Similar to the "common heni", H. acuminatus, but with smaller mouth and more rounded breast area. Zooplanktivore that excels in a large, un-crowded system. Cleaners as juveniles. This one in Gili Air, Lombok, Indonesia."

[Ninong]

wow, i didnt pay hundreds maybe even thousands of dollars to look at 2 tiny clownfish swimming in place all the time. i figured i mine as well just buy fish that i will enjoy or fish that would make spending all that money worth it.

Hmmm... What can I say?

We had a guy on here a couple of years ago who had a nurse shark in his 75-gal tank. He was extremely put out that some of us thought he was irresponsible. His explanation was pretty much the same as yours -- he may as well buy fish that he will enjoy. You can find that thread by doing a search using the words "Moron of the Month." It was a very lively discussion. :eek3:

[Reefer769]

how long do you think one of thoee butterflies will survive in my tank? i just figured i wanted to make the best of things and buy a couple fish i would enjoy other then the clownfish. i did enjoy the clownfish, but eversince i bought the ONE butterfly they have been swimming around freely, and seem happy. i read that it need a 50gal tank, would downsizing that statement to a 30gal tank make that big of a difference? most reeftanks do not have much room to swim around anyways because of all the LR, Coral, and Inverts. so i would say my 30gal tank has about the same amount of swimming area as a 55 gallon REEF tank would.

[Ninong]

Your original post is misleading then, because in it you say that "one of your butterflies has it all over." That would mean that you have more than one.

The size of the tank that is appropriate is a judgment call. Obviously Fenner's opinion is that they do best in "large, uncrowded systems." Asking the minimum size is like asking the minimum size tank for a tang or asking how many tangs can be kept in a particular size tank. Everyone will have a different opinion. I am only suggesting that you consider the size of your tank in choosing livestock and realize that the size of the tank limits your possibilities, which is true for all of us except maybe Kevinpo. ;;

[Reefer769]

okay so do you think this butterfly will survive in my tank? i really hope so becuase it seems to be very happy. i have a lot of swimming area for my fish, and i only have about 28lbs of LR in my 30gal tank, so this is not a REEF, I have plenty of room for them to swim and roam. would it make any difference if it was a fish only tank and maybe a few peices of LR for looks? would this make any difference on what kind of fish you can keep in your tank?

[Samper]

Reefer, I recently beat Ich unless I make another mistake. Here is how I did it. Bought a cheap ten gallon tank. Filled it with new salt water. Removed live rock and inverts from main. Put them in ten gallon. Got a rubbermaid bucket, caught fish, put them in bucket. Took live rock and inverts out of ten gallon and back to main. Put fish in ten gallon. Treated with the recommended dose of mardel copper safe, dosage on label is as follows: Use one teaspoon for 4 gallons of water, treats for a month. In the main I did a 50 percent water change. While water was down had help moving it near a wall that gets sunlight in the afternoon. This kept my temperature up around 80 most of the time. This speeds up the parasites life cycle. I wasnt around in the mornings to check but I'm positive that my temperature swing was too much. At any rate it worked. Did a 50 percent water change once a week for 2 and a half weeks in the main. Changed carbon twice also. All the while running my UV. Added a skimmer about a week prior to putting fish back in. I also took my live rock and gave them a good blasting with my powerhead twice. This might not work for you as I've read that the ich can last up to 6 weeks but my main was clear after 18 days. You should notice an explosion of copepods and other critters of that nature in the main during this time. You have to watch your treatment tank very closely, My fish developed a case of fin rot during this time that cleared up once back in the main. I'm sure others will warn you not to take this advice as I am a newb myself but I'm telling you this worked for me. I understand the others concern of you overstocking your tank or buying an unappropriate fish as I have made plenty of the same mistakes. Research your stuff, size, diet, where they come from etc. Also watch the fish at your lfs for any signs of anything being wrong before you take a life into your hands and put something into your main you might not like.
Hope this helps ya man. Good luck

[Reefland]

Reefer,

okay so do you think this butterfly will survive in my tank? i really hope so becuase it seems to be very happy.

If the fish has Cryptocaryon irritans it isn't happy. Ich is irritating to a fish and bothersome, this is why fish with Ich usually are trying to "scratch" against liverock or any other item in the tank that they can. They are not doing this out of enjoyment.

i have a lot of swimming area for my fish, and i only have about 28lbs of LR in my 30gal tank, so this is not a REEF, I have plenty of room for them to swim and roam. would it make any difference if it was a fish only tank and maybe a few peices of LR for looks? would this make any difference on what kind of fish you can keep in your tank?

In my opinion, it would not make any difference. I have a 75 gallon reef with only 60lbs of liverock, but that doesn't give fish in my tank the same amount of swimming room as a 125 with 125lbs of rock. Bottom line is you have a 30gal cube tank which will not support these large fish for any amount of time; butterfly fish, tangs, triggers, angels; they are all better suited for very large aquariums.

That's not to say that there are no fish that are suitable for your tank, on the contrary there are many! Bassletts, Clowns, Chromis and many more would do just fine and add a lot of life to your aqaurium.

You made a statement that you did not spend all that money to look at a couple of clownfish, why not take the dollars that you had and purchase some colorful coral that you can support under your MH lighting? That would have been a much better choice than the butterfly.

Scott Z.

[Samper]

Reefer,

You should look into the pygmy cherub angelfish. Their personality is great they are very beautiful and from what I've observed they help with a little tank maintenance.

[Reefland]

Now that's not a bad suggestion at all; where talking about a beautiful fish that grows to about 3" maximum. Of course, you need to get rid of the ich first.