Hermit Crab Debate

[duster]

I have read much debate over the use of hermit crabs, especially with snails. Most of the negative I have read has been in regards to the Dwarf/micro Mexican Red-leg or Red-tip hermit and the Dwarf/micro Blue-leg hermit, both of the scientific name Clibanarius. As such, I will not use either of these varieties, even if some have had no trouble with them. However, I would like to hear more from you out there regarding two other varieties which I haven't heard as much negative about: Scarlet Reef hermit crabs (Paguristes cadenati) and Dwarf Zebra hermit crabs (Calcinus). The tank cleaner packages from two popular online retailers (LiveAquaria/eTropicals and PetSolutions) include both Scarlet Reef and Dwarf Zebra crabs, but no Red or Blue legs. Have your experiences with Scarlets and Zebras been better than with Red-legs and Blue-legs?

[Penguin]

I've never had any problem with the scarlets. I have no experience with the dwarf zebras though. I think you are going to find people who have had both good and bad experiences with just about any crab.

A lot of the preset cleaner packages that are sold have hermits in the 1 per gallon range which is too heavily stocked IMO. You might just want to buy a few at a LFS to see if you like them first, then do a build-your-own package from one of the online vendors.

[Reefland]

If you stock your tank with crabs (of any variety) and snails, your taking a chance on the crabs becoming aggressive towards the snails. I would go with 0 crabs and a mixed variety of snails.

[Poseidon]

I agree with Scott... I HATE CRABS!!! Eventually they do eat snails!

[duster]

My tank is small and I already had a plan for an all-snail cleanup crew, per recommendations by Scott Z./Reefland and Reverai. I was thinking about one crab just to add interest, but maybe I won't bother. As a newbie hoping to control and be successful with a small tank, I'm sure I will have other more important things to worry about than a crab(s) terrorizing my tank. Thanks for your replies.

[Ninong]

Usually you can find Paguristes cadenati hermits at the LFS. You could buy just two or three to see how you like them. I ordered a dozen online with a bunch of other stuff from www.reeftopia.com and I like them. I think all hermits are potentially risky but these are probably the least risky of the bunch. They have not bothered any of my snails, which is something I cannot say about some nasty little hermits that came in with a shipment from a different source.

The only reason I have my Scarlet Reef hermits is because I thing they are cute, not because I feel they are necessary or anything like that. I'm not about to get any other hermits or add any more Scarlets, but a few of them add interest and diversity to the tank.

[Reefer769]

hey thanks for that awsome link ninong, theres a lot of great stuff there.

[Ninong]

hey thanks for that awsome link ninong, theres a lot of great stuff there.

They have really good prices and FREE FedEx overnight shipping on orders of $120 or more. Unfortunately for people with relatively small tanks, the quantities are rather large. I ended up ordering more than I really wanted to order for my 120-gal tank but I couldn't resist the good prices. They also have EXCELLENT service!

[duster]

I'm still debating. I would like to put one Scarlet in my little tank, but I'm still considering an all-snail crew, as I'm worried that a crab will eat the coralline algae I'm hoping to grow.

[Ninong]

I'm still debating. I would like to put one Scarlet in my little tank, but I'm still considering an all-snail crew, as I'm worried that a crab will eat the coralline algae I'm hoping to grow.

I have several Scarlet Reef hermits (Paguristes cadenati) in my tank. Mine do not eat coralline algae.

[fishgeeksrus]

Hi ninong,

I checked out that website. Which snail do you recommend?

Currently, I have around "estimate" 6 trochus, 12 nerite, 12 strombus and about 25 astrea. I have about 20 blue legged hermits and 12 micro hermits. I want to put in some more snails. How many and what kind? 180gal

I do have a bunch of baby snails. I dont know what kind. I first saw them about four weeks ago.

Thanks
Andrea

[Ninong]

Hi ninong,

I checked out that website. Which snail do you recommend?

Currently, I have around "estimate" 6 trochus, 12 nerite, 12 strombus and about 25 astrea. I have about 20 blue legged hermits and 12 micro hermits. I want to put in some more snails. How many and what kind? 180gal

I do have a bunch of baby snails. I dont know what kind. I first saw them about four weeks ago.

Thanks
Andrea

Hi Andrea,

I really can't answer your question without knowing more about your setup. I assume this is a recently started 180-gal reeftank, right? Exactly when did the tank complete its initial cycle? Is there are sand bed in this tank? Are there any algae problems in this tank? What is the approximate stocking level at this time?

I really don't know if you need more of anything without knowing a lot more about your situation. If you have a sandbed, I would definitely recommend about 50 Nassarius vibex snails. You could add those right away. If you do not yet have a sand cucumber (Holothuria spp.), I would suggest getting one of those, too. If you do not yet have any fighting conchs (Strombus alatus), you should order two of those. All of these require a nice sand bed.

What do you mean by "12 strombus?" I'm not sure what you are talking about. Where did you get these "strombus?" If I know where they came from I might know what they are. What do your "baby snails" look like? What is the shape of their shell?

You may want to hold off on adding more grazing snails (Astraea spp. and Trochus spp.) for a while longer while your tank matures, unless you think you have algae problems now.

You might want to add a dozen Cerith snails if you don't have any of those yet. If you do place an order with Reeftopia, add at least three or four of their Star Snails. They are a rather pricey species of Astraea snail but I like the ones I have.

You will probably want to get your order up to $120 to get the free shipping (that's what I did), but you have to consider what you can add without overdoing it.

BTW, I hate most hermit crabs, especially the blue legs and the so-called micro hermits, but I do have a few Scarlet Reef hermits because I think they are cute. A few hermits crabs go a long way IMO. ;;

[fishgeeksrus]

It has been up since around March 04. We have anywhere from a 2-5 inch sandbed. We have an algae that it starting to look more like hair algae. It is growing on the back glass and overflows only. I am not positive that it is hair algae. We have about 40-50 lbs of base rock and about 100 lbs of live rock.


The 12 strombus grazers from IPSF. I bought the reef tune up kit. The baby snails had a round swirl shell. I tried thinking back to when I first saw them and narrowed it down to sometime after the reef tune up kit. I am thinking possibly the nerite???? Not really sure yet. Shells are still clear.

Well I do have some sort of algae on the glass. Not properly identified yet.

I do have about 5 cerith snail in there. I forgot about them.

I have noted all suggestions. I will definitely check it out.

I don't plan on adding anymore hermits at this time. I am thinking the snails will be much more beneficial for me. I will try to take some pictures of the algae tonight. Maybe I can get a decent picture. I was thinking that it was some form of macro algae. Not hair algae. <shrug>

Thanks a bunch!

[Ninong]

The 12 strombus grazers from IPSF. I bought the reef tune up kit.

That's what I figured. I can assure you that those are NOT Strombus maculatus. IPSF has misidentified them. I am not positive of their exact identification, although I suspect they might be Columbellids, but they are most certainly not Strombids. Whatever they are, they are cute little grazers.

The baby snails had a round swirl shell.

I can't help you there. How large are they right now? Are we talking about <2mm across? I hope you don't have what I have. I have hundreds and hundreds of tiny trochids, probably from the genus Collonista, that first showed up in my tank a few months ago. Their adult size is only about 5-6mm across and they are extremely prolific in my reef tank. They are nocturnal algal grazers. Morgan Lidster at Inland Aquatics even asked me if I could collect several dozen and ship them to him but I don't feel like going to all that trouble, especially during hot weather. My problem with these tiny trochids is that they are competing with other snails that I consider more valuable.

As far as the so-called micro hermits from IPSF are concerned, I hate those with a passion. I think I have finally removed all of them from my tank. Most of them grew very large, very fast and killed some valuable snails for their shells.

[fishgeeksrus]

Maybe a little larger than 2mm. I am thinking that they are whatevery the black snail was in that reef tune up kit.

so far I have:

Purple tang
Sohal tang
Copperband Butterfly
Algae blenny
Yellow watchman goby

[fishgeeksrus]

more pics

[Ninong]

In your second set of pics, the one in the middle is probably Trochus intextus, the one to the right of that may be Nerita spp. and I'm not sure about the first one. Do you have any other pics of that guy showing a close up of the eyes? Did that come from IPSF? Exactly how long is it? It appears to be a strombid of some sort but I can't tell for sure without a better view of its eyes. The snails that IPSF sent me as Strombus maculatus were not strombids at all.

[fishgeeksrus]

Wow, that one does not like the camera. It was hard to get a picture some what clear enough to make out. This is the best that I could do. I have three of these snails. His has both of his eyes out in these pics and he has a elephant kindof snout.

This particular snail I bought from my lfs. I asked him to order some Strombus grazers and this is what he received. It is about an inch and a half long.

[Ninong]

Those are definitely strombids, which had me confused at first because I thought you were showing pictures of animals that you purchased from IPSF.

Are all three pictures separate individuals? You mentioned having three of them. The first picture looks more like a Strombus gigas than a S. alatus but it hard to tell without seeing if it has the really large flared lip typical of gigas. I have two S. alatus in my tank and I have been bouncing back and forth for the past five minutes looking at the shell of my S. alatus and comparing it to your pictures and the only thing I can say is that I don't believe the one in your first picture is S. alatus and I'm not sure about the two pictures you just posted. It's hard to say from that angle with any certainty.

Didn't the LFS person know what they were? They must have come with the correct name on the invoice when he bought them.

If they are S. alatus, their maximum adult size will be about 3" to 4" in length. If they are S. gigas, their maximum adult size will be about 8" to 12" in length. Big difference!

[fishgeeksrus]

Most of them came from IPSF. Not those. The second pictures are the same snail. The first pic could be a different snail. I bought all three on the same day from the same batch that was shipped to the fish store.

I told him what I wanted and he ordered it. I was thinking that they were a different snail. My mistake. I can't ever keep these things straight.

Let's just hope that they aren't the gigas <crossing fingers>