[Reefer769]

i need some advice on how much of this cupramine copper do i drip into my 10gal hospital? i need some precise advice, because i dont want to screw up and end up killing my fish. thanks

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Reefer769

i need some advice on how much of this cupramine copper do i drip into my 10gal hospital? i need some precise advice, because i dont want to screw up and end up killing my fish. thanks

Here are the detailed instructions from the manufacturer's website: http://www.seachem.com/products/prod...Cupramine.html

Cupramine FAQ: http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Cupramine_faq.html

[Reefer769]

it says: Use 1 mL (top mark of enclosed dispenser) per 40 L (10.5 gallons*) the first day, wait 48 hours, then repeat for a total dose of 0.5 mg/L

after the 48 hours when it says: then repeat for a total dose of 0.5 mg/L

what is this saying i do???

does this mean that i put 1 ml in the tank the first day, and after 48 hours drip in 0.5 ml, then leave it for 14 days without dripping anything, and then do it all over again after 14 days?

these instructions are really confusing me, and i dont want to screw up and kill my fish.

[Meric]

You will need to put 1ml in on Day one. Wait 48 hours then add enough additional Copper to equal .5mg per liter.

Therefore you are going to need a copper test kit so you do not over dose.

I would test your water after you put the 1ml in to see how much copper that puts in your water. Then add accordingly:

IE: if 1ml per 10 Gallons = .1mg/l then to reach .5mg/l you would need to add 4ml additional

[Reefer769]

so then after 48 hours when i add the 4ml to eh tank, i dont dose anymore until 14 days have passed right? or do i dose everyday for 14 days?

[Ninong]

DIRECTIONS: Remove all invertebrates.

OK. No problems here, there are no inverts in your hospital tank.

Turn off UV sterilizer;

OK. No problems here. You don't have a UV sterilizer.

remove chemical filtration.

This means you can't have any carbon running in any sort of filter or anything on your hospital tank.

Use 1 mL (top mark of enclosed dispenser) per 40 L (10.5 gallons*) the first day,

They are telling you to add 1 ml for 10.5 gallons. That's close enough to the size of your hospital tank. That means you need to add 1 ml of Cupramine, using their little measuring cap or you could borrow a 1/4 tsp measuring spoon from the kitchen and fill it not quite to the top.

wait 48 hours,

Don't do anything for two days after you put in the first 1 ml of Cupramine.

then repeat for a total dose of 0.5 mg/L (in freshwater, use half dose).

They are telling you to add another 1 ml (1/5 tsp), which they are saying should result in a copper concentration in your tank of 0.5 mg/L (0.5 ppm).

Leave at this concentration for 14 days.

They are telling you to leave the tank alone for two weeks at the target concentration of 0.5 mg/L (0.5 ppm). You could even try for a target concentration of 0.4 ppm according to what Terry B. said in his article. He said that in his experience 0.4 ppm did the job.

Do not redose without testing (MultiTest: Copper™).

They are telling you to NOT add more than the recommended 2 ml of Cupramine over the first two days WITHOUT first testing for copper concentration using their company's copper test kit. If you are careful to measure your doses, you can probably avoid testing as long as you do NOT exceed their recommended dosage without testing first.

Do not use in conjunction with any other medication.

Do not do anything else to the hospital tank while you are treating your fish with their product.

If tank has ever been treated with an ionic copper (e.g. copper chloride, sulfate or citrate), test copper level after initial dosing.

They are warning you here that if you have ever used copper sulfate in this little 10-gal tank previously, the adsorbed copper (copper stuck to the glass) will be leaching back into the saltwater and you should not add your second dose (the one at the 48 hour mark) without testing your copper concentration first. You don't have to worry about this because you have never used copper before in this tank.

Although most fish tolerate Cupramine™ to 0.8 mg/L, it is not advisable to exceed 0.6 mg/L copper.

They are telling you that you will harm your fish if you let your copper levels get too high. The truth is that the fish will be harmed anyway, even at their recommended levels, but the damage is not immediately visible and something that many hobbyists are willing to accept as a fact of life. It's sort of like treating a person with chemotherapy to kill cancer cells knowing that the chemotherapy is doing a lot of harm to the person in unavoidable side effects. Copper damages the immune system and sometimes makes fish infertile. These effects are hard to quantify. You may not do very much damage to a particular fish by treating it once with copper but if you were to treat the same fish with copper five or six times over the course of a couple of years, you would certainly shorten its lifespan at the very least. Different species have different tolerance levels for copper treatments. Most "experts" no longer recommend copper treatment for fish parasites. Scott W. Michael, for instance, no longer recommends it even though he once did.

Remove with carbon or CupriSorb™.

They are telling you that after you have successfully completed the recommended 14-day therapy period, you can remove the Cupramine with carbon or CupriSorb.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Reefer769

so then after 48 hours when i add the 4ml to eh tank, i dont dose anymore until 14 days have passed right? or do i dose everyday for 14 days?

No!!!!!!!

See my above post.

[Reefer769]

alright thanks a lot ninong that really clarified everything.

i have a pengiun mini power filter on the back of the 10gal, and there is this blue filter media with black pellets inside of it that sits inside of the filter. do i need to remove this during the 14 day period?

and im aloud to still feed the fish during this 14 day period right?

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Meric

IE: if 1ml per 10 Gallons = .1mg/l then to reach .5mg/l you would need to add 4ml additional

According to SeaChem, dosing 1 ml the first day, followed by another 1 ml 48 hrs later should result in a copper concentration of 0.5 mg/L (0.5 ppm) in a volume of 10.5 gallons of saltwater.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Reefer769

alright thanks a lot ninong that really clarified everything.

i have a pengiun mini power filter on the back of the 10gal, and there is this blue filter media with black pellets inside of it that sits inside of the filter. do i need to remove this during the 14 day period?

Yes, because the black pellets are carbon.

[Reefer769]

thanks for all the help ninong!

[Reefer769]

one more question.


should i do frequent water changes during the 14 days?
also when the 14 days are up, how many more times should i repeat the process of dripping 1 ml wait 48 hours then drip another ml? or an even better question is how long should i keep the fish in the hospital for?

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Reefer769

should i do frequent water changes during the 14 days?

No! No water changes at all. I can't believe you asked that question. I'm afraid you do not understand what you are doing here.

also when the 14 days are up, how many more times should i repeat the process of dripping 1 ml wait 48 hours then drip another ml? or an even better question is how long should i keep the fish in the hospital for?

You should not have to repeat the process at all. According to SeaChem, a 14-day therapy is sufficient. And again, SeaChem recommends that you keep the fish in the copper treated water for 14 days.

Maybe I need to repeat things again: You add 1 ml of Cupramine to your 10-gallon hospital tank. You wait 48 hours. You add 1 ml of Cupramine to your tank again (this makes a total of 2 ml of Cupramine). You wait 12 more days. Your fish should be cured. You do not do anything else except test your water for copper if you think there is a need for testing it.

I wish I knew what you're thinking of doing when you use the phrase "dripping 1 ml." If you are talking about adding the 1 ml of Cupramine to a liter of saltwater and dripping that into your hospital tank, fine. If you are talking about anything else, please explain. I have a hard time figuring out whether we are on the same page sometimes.

[Ninong]

If you read this post that I gave you a week ago, you will see that Terry B. recommends testing for copper concentration twice a day during the treatment period. copper for ich

The reason I did not advise you to do that is because I am afraid that you will not get accurate test results. Copper tests are not very accurate to begin with and I'm afraid that you may complicate things by trying to test your hospital tank's water.

Provided you carefully measure the dosage of Cupramine and provided this tank has never been used previously with copper and there are no carbon filters or anything like that to absorb the copper, and you do not do any water changes, you should be OK without testing for it.

Just add a little less than 1/4 tsp on the first day. Wait two days and repeat. Wait 12 more days and hopefully you are done.

[Reefer769]

okay sorry for the mix up ninong. what i meant by dripping it into the tank was using the dripper it came with and just "dripping" it in real quick. also i have a question, i hope this doesnt complicate matters, but on the bottom of the tank there are only maybe 5 or 6 tiny little peices of the black pebbles that were in the filter media that sat in the penguin just laying there. will this effect anything? becuase i added 1 ml of the cupramine copper today at 1:30 and noticed them at the bottom. i really hope this wont effect anything. should i syphon it out right away or is it not a big deal?

[Reefer769]

oh yea one more thing. will adding water into the hospital to replenish the evaporated water mess anything up?

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Reefer769

oh yea one more thing. will adding water into the hospital to replenish the evaporated water mess anything up?

Adding freshwater to replace evaporation is necessary and it will result in a very slight lowering of the copper concentration. Assuming that we are talking about a 10-gal tank with either no lighting or no more than a single NO fluorescent tube, you shouldn't have very much evaporation. You could reduce the evaporation further by keeping the top at least partially covered.

I doubt that you will have to replace 20% of the water due to evaporation during a 14-day period. But even if you did have to add two gallons of freshwater during that period, you would reduce the copper concentration from 0.5 mg/L to 0.4 mg/L, which is the dosage that Terry B. said was effective for him. If you add one gallon of freshwater during that period, you will reduce the copper concentration from 0.5 mg/L to 0.45 mg/L.

I hate to make this too complicated for you because I fear that any testing and any adjustments based on that testing could result in something undesirable happening.

IF you are going to treat with copper -- and you have already decided that this is what you want to do -- I think you should simply add 1 ml on Day One and another 1 ml on Day Three and not do anything else except replace whatever slight amount of evaporation you have during the entire 14-day period. I doubt that you will have enough evaporation during that period to significantly affect the copper concentration in the tank.

[Reefer769]

what about the black filter pebbles on the ground, and i just looked and there is more than 5. will this effect anything?

i guess they must have slipped out some how, but there is barely any on the bottom, just enough to notice.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Reefer769

okay sorry for the mix up ninong. what i meant by dripping it into the tank was using the dripper it came with and just "dripping" it in real quick. also i have a question, i hope this doesnt complicate matters, but on the bottom of the tank there are only maybe 5 or 6 tiny little peices of the black pebbles that were in the filter media that sat in the penguin just laying there. will this effect anything? becuase i added 1 ml of the cupramine copper today at 1:30 and noticed them at the bottom. i really hope this wont effect anything. should i syphon it out right away or is it not a big deal?

I guess it all depends on exactly what you mean by "black pebbles?"

If you are talking about carbon, it is a very effective means of absorbing copper. I have no idea how much because I don't know exactly how tiny these little black pebbles are.

You should remove these "tiny black pebbles" as soon as possible. It they are indeed very tiny, then there may not be any need to test your water for copper. If you think it is necessary, then you might want to test your water for copper several hours after adding your second dose of Cupramine.

I'm afraid I am not in a position to venture a guess as to what your best course of action is at this point. If it were me, I would probably test for copper AFTER the second dose (a good 4 hours after) to make sure that the concentration was at least 0.4 mg/L.

Good luck,

[Reefer769]

alright thanks ninong, i will syphon them out right away.