[Samper]

I have cyano. Used a turkey baster to suck most of it off my live rock etc but in the process also blew some off. I got as much as I could but some settled in different places that I couldnt get. All of these little pieces are just gonna start the process all over again right? Right now I am only running one powerhead in my 20 gallon. It is aimed to the right. If I bought one of the rotating powerheads and set it to spray everywhere would this maybe solve my problem?

My anemone and shrooms seem to like the area in the aquarium that the powerhead isnt aimed at would the rotating powerhead make them unhappy?

[Reefland]

Samper,

The cyanobacteria is going to keep coming back until the sorce of the nutrient is found and corrected. Siphoning it off it only a temporary cure until the source is identified and corrected. So the little pieces that you missed will probably not be a problem, or no more of a problem than the outbreak itself because it will keep coming back.

As far as adding current, this is as well a temporary solution, although the added flow in your tank would probably be a good thing. Cyano does seem to prefer areas with less current but again it isn't going to fix the problem.

As for the rotating powerheads, don't mess with them. If your going to add some additional flow, do it with a Maki-Jet 900 or 1200.

[Samper]

I'm a scuba diver but have never had the luxury to dive a reef. Are most of the worlds reefs in high current areas? The maxi jet I'm using now is only a 400 and it provides pretty decent current and surface aggitation where it is aimed. Would a 9 or 1200 be a bit much? Also Since I don't have a camera I'll sort of tell you how my system is set up. The majority of live rock that I have is on the left side of the aquarium. The maxi jet blows to the right. The nozzle is aimed towards the surface and blows toward the right corner of the aquarium. I have aqua scaped so that the flow blows to the right corner, flows down and under some of the live rock and around the back. The left front side doesnt get much flow. This is where my anemone has settled also where my shrooms seem to do the best. Should my powerhead be blowing more directly on the liverock or does this sound ok to you? Would the 9 or 1200 cause too much flow for the anemone to be happy. Also when I had my shrooms in more direct current they were about to let go of the rock how would you get around this problem with a bigger powerhead?

[Reefland]

There are some things to consider with current and 1 thing not to consider - "Do I have too much flow?".

The problem with adding current to an aquarium is the velocity, not the total volume of current. 1000gph is 1000gph, but 1000gph coming out of a 1/2" opening is too forceful compared to 1000gph coming out of a 1" opening. That is what you have to keep in mind and luckily there are some new pumps that help this problem a bit.

Natural reefs have more current then we can ever add to our tank but it is very random and varies drastically. The more random, sweeping current you can add to your tank to try and simulate this while keeping the velocity to a minimum, the better. In our closed systems, there are some challenges. The size of these glass boxes make it difficult to keep velocity low and the substrates that are used blow around easily and make a mess.

For my reef, I opted for a bare bottom tank which eliminates the substrate blowing around. This opened the door for us to add lots of current to our tank without that worry, but still needed to watch the velocity to make sure we were damaging any coral tissue. Our 75 gallon reef has 4 Maxi-Jet 1200's (marketed at 295gph) which do have a bit of flow coming out of their small spout, but they are not placed in areas that they blow directly on corals and they are also on a Wavemaster Pro which turns them on and off randomly. To get some more volume, we added 2 Tunze Stream 6060's (marketed at 1600gph), all running in addition to our return pump.

The point of all this is we have about 4500gph turning over in our 75 gallon reef and it is not too much. It is a matter of being mindful with coral placement and for animals that can move (i.e. fish, anemone, etc.) they will move to a place that is suiting for them.

[Samper]

Here is what I'm thinking, 2 maxi jet 900s pointing to each of the front corners maybe on some sort of wavemaster so I can alternate between the two. Since I'm thinking of a dsb this might not be the way to go though. I guess I could remove crushed coral and build some sort of pvc stilt for the lr to go on and just run bare bottom. If I go that route I'm a little worried that my lr doesnt have enough bacteria to keep up with the needs, could be wrong cause it is a small setup and have about 40lbs of Fiji LR. Or I could go the barebottom route and setup a refug with a dsb. Hmmm I have a little cash what would you recommend?

[Reefland]

Samper,

There are many good options, all having advantages and disadvantages. Either way you go I would consider adding more flow than the 1 powerhead you have.

The real problem you are having here is with cyanobacteria. Cyanobacteria is ultimately caused by excessive nutrients. Excessive nutrients are a direct cause of poor filtration methods (mechanical filters that are not cleaned frequently, in-efficient protein skimming, etc.) and can only be eradicated with improved nutrient exporting methods. As mentioned above, the addition of more current will help thin the bloom in the areas with high flow but it will not stop the blooms from occuring in other areas of the reef.

You mention that you are using crushed coral which could be a cause of the excessive nutrients as you have already learned (I am guessing since you are already looking at alternate substrates). The size of crushed coral allows detritus to seep through the particles where they cannot be removed or utilized as energy by detritavores. A live sand bed that has plenty of detritavores and microfauna to process the detritus or a bare bottom tank that holds detritus in suspension for mechanical removal or allows for easy manual removal for siphoning are 2 alternatives.

I would also suggest that you take a close look at your protein skimmer as well to make sure it is producing skimmate to it's fullest capacity. Powerful protein skimmers will obviously help in the reduction of nutrients when cleaned frequently and running optimally.

[Samper]

Do you feel that with a tank of my size running two maxi jet 900s that I would have a problem running a DSB? I'd hate to have a sandstorm constantly brewing and be sandblasting my corals and fish. Also wouldnt want all of the sand making a giant dune on the back wall and defeating its purpose. Would running a DSB mean that I would actually be losing a few gallons of water due to particle size and compacting of the sand?


People seem to have all these complicated refuges setup also.....why couldnt you just have one pump in the refug with a hose running to the main, with the same size pump in the main with a hose running to the refug? Sort of making a constant loop of water flow between the two? Why wouldnt this work? I know there would be risks as far as the hoses maybe leaking or something but I'm pretty handy and am pretty sure I could rig something up.

I just wanted to add that I know I've talked to you about a bigger tank. It would be a ton easier to setup exactly how I would like but but I'll be moving in December and really dont wanna do anything like that until after the move. My apartment size really isnt going to allow for something of that size either right now. The lighting alone for a 75 would heat the place up 4 degrees.

[Samper]

Also with regards to the protein skimmer, I hate to say it cause I know some people are gonna have some issues but my seaclone 100 is perfect for my tank. I weekly get a cup full of foul brown/black mucky nasty smelling junk. Keeps the water looking nice. I'm fairly positive the crushed coral is my problem. Would seriously like to slap the guy that helped me get into this hobby cause of the way he got me started. I had like 2k to put into it but he was like no start small, do this do that. Problems down the road Ninong told me......you were right guys. I really do appreciate all your help. Without this board I'd have given up a while back.

[Reefland]

Originally Posted by Samper

Do you feel that with a tank of my size running two maxi jet 900s that I would have a problem running a DSB? I'd hate to have a sandstorm constantly brewing and be sandblasting my corals and fish. Also wouldnt want all of the sand making a giant dune on the back wall and defeating its purpose. Would running a DSB mean that I would actually be losing a few gallons of water due to particle size and compacting of the sand?

You are going to loose a negligable amount of total volume from a sandbed. Don't even worry about that.

2 MJ 900's will not be too much flow. Initially after adding the sand to the tank and then turning on the pumps the sand is going to blow around until it gets settled but that is to be expected. If you do change over to a sandbed, make sure that you place your inhabitants in a holding tank they can stay in for about a week, it's going to take that long for a DSB cloud to clear.

People seem to have all these complicated refuges setup also.....why couldnt you just have one pump in the refug with a hose running to the main, with the same size pump in the main with a hose running to the refug? Sort of making a constant loop of water flow between the two? Why wouldnt this work? I know there would be risks as far as the hoses maybe leaking or something but I'm pretty handy and am pretty sure I could rig something up.

No that will not work. You will never get the exact same amount of flow between the tanks with this method. A much easier way to go is to place the refugium higher than the display, pump water from teh display to the refugium via a small pump and hose and let water from teh refugium gravity feed back into the display through a bulkhead placed near the top of the refugium wall ith plumbing running back down to the display.

Also with regards to the protein skimmer, I hate to say it cause I know some people are gonna have some issues but my seaclone 100 is perfect for my tank. I weekly get a cup full of foul brown/black mucky nasty smelling junk. Keeps the water looking nice. I'm fairly positive the crushed coral is my problem.

I would suggest that if a Sea-Clone is producing skimmate weekly, a powerful, effecient protein skimmer would producing it every 2-3 days.

[Samper]

For now I have decided to go bare bottom. I bought two maxi jet 1200s This way when I decide to upgrade tanks I can use them, two 5 foot long one inch thick pvc pipes, 2 four way connectors for the middle braces, 4 3 way connectors for the outside corners, I got the 3 ways so that I will have a one inch leg under the edges. I figure this will make for easy vacuuming and more water circulation. And bought 6 T connectors. The setup will look like this.

3 way---------------T------------T------------------3 way
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
T-----------------4 way-------4way----------------T
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
3 way---------------T------------T------------------3 way

The only thing I'm worried about is that I couldnt find a suitable "leg" for the middle. The 3 ways have it lifted about an inch but the middle might sag if I don't find something to stick under it. They will be spaced fairly close so that the rocks dont touch bottom but far enough so that I can vacuum under it. With 2 1200 maxi jets I dont think I will have to do too much with the vacuum. Also today I saw an aquarium at a shop. It was a 56 gallon but it was more like a square, very thick glass, very deep would be awesome for a dsb one day. It was 99 bucks. I almost bought it and a mag 350 filter but decided not to for now. I dont have the lighting for it, the skimming ability either.

[Samper]

That drawing didnt turn out so good but you get the idea.

[Samper]

Just wanted to say that my design worked wonderfully, everything is settled back in and doing great. The two maxi jet 1200s are set close to the center of my tank and both aimed to the left. This gives very nice water movement around and under my LR. Anything that settles to the bottom does so in the front right square of the pvc. Can be easily siphoned out and I'm loving it.

The only problem is that my anemone let go of his rock and has been sort of spinning around in that front right square. I tried setting him back in a spot that I thought he would like but he isnt having it. Any tips on getting him back up on the LR?