[Samper]

As some of you know I bought some new lights. Coralife aqua light 48 inch 260w total.
2 65 w actinics
2 65 w 10ks
They came in today and other than being way too long for my current tank they look great.
I was just curious what my favorite lfs would advise me to do so I called em up.
I Pretended I had never been in their shop before and I told them that I needed advice. Then I told them what setup I was running and asked them the following.

ME: What inverts can I keep in my system with my lighting?

LFS: "at 13w per gallon the sky is the limit"

ME: What do you mean?

LFS: With that lighting you will not be limited as to what inverts you will be able to keep, basically anything in the ocean.

ME: Could you give me some examples of what you would keep if you were me?

LFS: I'd say to come on down and pick up 1 each of the following for a "trial run".
1. 8 inch Blue Crocea clam
2. Hammer Coral
3. Torch
4. Frog Spawn
5. Montipora Digita

ME: Are you sure I would be able to support a clam?

LFS: Sure all you would need are DTs to feed.

ME: Thanks I'll be in touch.

What do you guys think about this conversation and his advice.....I cant wait for this so hurry up and respond just kidding .

[Reefland]

I've got one word for you:




Actually, the Hammer, Torch and Frogspawn would do just in regards to the provided light, you would probably have a very difficult time getting them all in your 20 gallon reef considering the room that should be provided.

The Montipora digita, again I think this would be a an excellent choice if you were interested in trying a stony coral. They are very hardy and adaptive to varying light and provided they are in good conditions can grow very quickly.

I would not consider getting the clam, or any clam and trying to maintain it under Compact Flourescent lighting. And as far as going out and getting all of these and placing them in your tank, that would be a mistake. If you find one of the above mentioned that you really adore, and your tank is progressing good, give it a whirl!.

[Samper]

I'm very interested in the Torch, hammer, and digita.

Gonna wait until I find someone with nice frags before purchasing cause I need small.......small........small frags.

[Reefland]

You might find that after introducing a M. digita that you will not have room for anything else!

[Samper]

Is it very hard to transfer established corals to another tank if they outgrow their current one?

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Samper

LFS: "at 13w per gallon the sky is the limit"

Just think how high the limit would be if you were to mount the same fixture over a 2-gal nano tank? Wow! At 130 watts per gallon your tank would be in orbit.

LFS: With that lighting you will not be limited as to what inverts you will be able to keep, basically anything in the ocean.

And did they understand that half of your lighting is not even over water? You did tell them that the fixture is 48" long and the tank is a standard 20-gal tank, right?

LFS: I'd say to come on down and pick up 1 each of the following for a "trial run".
1. 8 inch Blue Crocea clam

Definitely not a wise choice in your situation; however, I am interested in knowing what this 8" Blue Crocea clam looked like. Could it be that the LFS Einstein doesn't know the difference between a Tridacna maxima and a T. crocea? It is EXTREMELY unlikely that they have an 8" crocea. I would be willing to bet money on that one.

LFS: Sure all you would need are DTs to feed.

D.T.'s is excellent food for clams but an 8" clam would get about 95% of its energy from photosynthesis; therefore, adequate lighting would be the determining factor in keeping one. Juvenile clams get as much as 40% of their energy from filtering but this drops off as they mature.

What do you guys think about this conversation and his advice.....I cant wait for this so hurry up and respond just kidding .

It's typical LFS drivel. I've heard it all before. They have no idea what they're talking about but they feel obligated to answer your questions and they assume you know even less than they do.

[Sueet]

lol, it is exactly this type of situation that makes the "Rules" impossible to pin down in this hobby. Too bad so many people can't seem to understand the concept that "one size does NOT fit all".

Just for the record... I'd vote you shoot the lfs guy

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Sueet

lol, it is exactly this type of situation that makes the "Rules" impossible to pin down in this hobby.

That's because there are no rules, just guidelines, sort of.

Just for the record... I'd vote you shoot the lfs guy

That wouldn't solve anything because they'd just find another one just like him who would work maybe six weekends before quitting. During that brief excursion into the world of underwater wonder just imagine how much totally absurd advice he could hand out. (Editor's note: I'm surprised we haven't heard from all the LFS people on the board protesting that we're painting all of them with the same brush. Not really, just 80% of them! )

My new favorite line was posted by someone on another board. He went into an LFS to see if they carried Salifert test kits. The weekend warrior he approached first with this difficult question promptly turned around and shouted to a more experienced co-worker, "Do we carry Salifert test kits?" "No," came the reply. "They don't test for saliferts anymore."

My previous favorite line came from a young female employee who was working her very first week on the job at an LFS. I was standing nearby when a parent of a teenager asked her how large a certain fish would get because their tank was only 40 gallons and they didn't want anything that would get too big. Her confident reply was, "None of our fish will get larger than 4" in our tanks." I engaged her in a discussion on this topic and learned that she and another co-worker had just started there a few days before and they had been instructed to give that stock response whenever someone asked about the maximum size of any fish in the store. Both of them were astonished to learn that it is sometimes possible for fish to get bigger than 4" but probably not at their store.

[Sueet]

Originally Posted by Ninong

"Do we carry Salifert test kits?" "No," came the reply. "They don't test for saliferts anymore."

omg, lmao...... it's hilarious..... but scary.

Ah well, the best defense is a good offense anyhow. It's just a shame that all the critters suffer for the lack of knowledge on their erstwhile owners' parts

[zhenya]

Originally Posted by Ninong

"Do we carry Salifert test kits?" "No," came the reply. "They don't test for saliferts anymore."

LMAO. I've got to tell this story to Habib when I see him at MACNA next month.

Originally Posted by Ninong

Both of them were astonished to learn that it is sometimes possible for fish to get bigger than 4" but probably not at their store.

That is probably the saddest part, George. Most fish won't leave that long at any LFS tanks becouse they are bought fast and if they not bought then they die.

[Samper]

omg........

[reddhaus]

Originally Posted by Ninong

Just think how high the limit would be if you were to mount the same fixture over a 2-gal nano tank? Wow! At 130 watts per gallon your tank would be in orbit.

That is great!

Now if you will excuse me, I just bought a full grown 4" Panther Grouper for my 29 gal. reefank and I have to test my salifert levels. I hear they can get elevated when you add new fish to your tank....................

[Reefland]

Originally Posted by reddhaus

That is great!

Now if you will excuse me, I just bought a full grown 4" Panther Grouper for my 29 gal. reefank and I have to test my salifert levels. I hear they can get elevated when you add new fish to your tank....................

Excellent find Scott! I hear you can keep these in your reef without feeding them too so that is a great deal.

Seriously though, this brings up some questions for me that maybe all of you can help me with since we're on the subject.

Recently we bought a Blackcap Basslet and up until recently, he has been doing fine. The fish had great coloration, ate very well and was a very active swimmer. A few days ago, he started to stay "in hiding" a bit more than usual and the only time we would see him would be at night and then just a glimpse. When we would see him at night he was moving around but we couldn't see much about his coloration. During the day, he was not eating at all which really concerned me. Well today I finally saw the little guy and he was very pale in coloration and seemed to be getting "cloudy eyes". Do you think it could be a lack of diet or the salifert level in our reef?

Ok, that was cruel, our fish is doing great.

P.S. Anyone know what NSW levels are for salifert?

[Samper]

Reefland,

the answer to your question is a very complicated one and I do not feel that I am the person to properly give an answer............................................ .....

Call this number I'm sure they can help you out.
910-868-3482

[patsfan1130]

Originally Posted by Reefland

Excellent find Scott! I hear you can keep these in your reef without feeding them too so that is a great deal.

Seriously though, this brings up some questions for me that maybe all of you can help me with since we're on the subject.

Recently we bought a Blackcap Basslet and up until recently, he has been doing fine. The fish had great coloration, ate very well and was a very active swimmer. A few days ago, he started to stay "in hiding" a bit more than usual and the only time we would see him would be at night and then just a glimpse. When we would see him at night he was moving around but we couldn't see much about his coloration. During the day, he was not eating at all which really concerned me. Well today I finally saw the little guy and he was very pale in coloration and seemed to be getting "cloudy eyes". Do you think it could be a lack of diet or the salifert level in our reef?

Ok, that was cruel, our fish is doing great.

P.S. Anyone know what NSW levels are for salifert?

hehehe

JUST this morning I decided to get out early and take a trip to my LFS to pick up some salt mix (and a clam or 2 )

anyway..I use crystal sea salt mix but they didnt have any of the 5g buckets on the floor as usual. well,it being so early in the day..the guys I typically deal with were still not in so I was forced to talk to some pimple faced kid I had never seen before. and this is how the convo went....

me - excuse me,do you have any of the crystal sea 5 gallon buckets out back? I need to do a water change today but dont see any out here

idiot - Umm..I dunno..lemme go check

me - thanks

moron - umm..IO right?

me - no..IO is right here..I want crystal sea

clueless - umm.ok..lemme check

(15 minute wait)

einstein - ummm..I dont think we have any left

me - ok thanks bud.

a$$hat - why dont you just use the IO - It's better stuff ya know

me - no that ok..but thanks bud

him - or better yet..the reef crystals is waaaay better than that crystal sea crap

at this point I wanted to call him an a$$hat but my 8 year old was clinging to my leg.

Up and coming Sprung - If you need some salt mix today but dont want to buy a different brand...I would suggest you buy some table salt from the grocery store and use that. I shouldn't be telling you this...but it's the same stuff..they just grind this stuff up a bit to make it look different and to make a killing from the public. we use it in all of our tanks.

(ok..now keep in mind I have been going to this store for more than a decade and am quite friendly with the manager & assist manager of the salt water dept..I golf once a week the the manager..also keep in mind that my daughter was still at my side..I was seeing red)

me - really? regular table salt eh? the store really uses it? what is the salt/water ratio?

aspiring Eric Borneman - Yeah man..plain old table salt..the same stuff you put on your food! just use the same you use of this crap. bout 6 cups per 5 gallon bucket.

me - thank for the tip bud

At this point I simply walked away and drove across the street to HD to pick up a light for my fuge. I went back after about an hour at which point Chris (salt water manager was in)

I shared Einstein's tip with Chris. I thought his head was going to do an excorcist! He took about 10 seconds to take it all in and fired the kid right on the spot. the idiot gave me a nasty "I'm gonna kick your butt look" and walked out. But not without me telling him that 7 eleven might be hiring first (I couldnt resit)

I don't feel bad at all. people like that have no business working in places like this.

[Sueet]

Originally Posted by patsfan1130

I don't feel bad at all. people like that have no business working in places like this.

Kudos to you! If I wore a hat, I would take it off in your honor.

Too bad so many other people don't have the knowledge to battle the bad advice tho *sigh*

[Samper]

When my salinity gets low I just dump a whole jar of mortons salt in.....really helps with my corraline growth. Seriously though the salt mixes we use have all the necessary trace elements but if you were to seperate all that stuff out, what is the difference in the actual salt? I know table salt is iodized but if someone could explain this to me in a little deeper detail my fiance will bake you some cookies.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Samper

When my salinity gets low I just dump a whole jar of mortons salt in.....really helps with my corraline growth. Seriously though the salt mixes we use have all the necessary trace elements but if you were to seperate all that stuff out, what is the difference in the actual salt? I know table salt is iodized but if someone could explain this to me in a little deeper detail my fiance will bake you some cookies.

Table salt might have something in it to make it easier to pour. It might have something in it to act as a preservative. It might be iodized with extra iodine. And even if it doesn't have any of those things and is pure enough for us to eat, it may not be really pure enough to use to make artificial seawater. If you wanted to make your own artificial seawater, you would need to start out with very pure table salt (with no additives or preservatives) and then add the correct amount of calcium and magnesium using magnesium chloride, epsom salts and calcium sulfate (gypsum). It's a lot easier and safer to just buy the stuff already prepared.

The chemical composition of seawater changes as it evaporates and becomes dense brine. If you want to know exactly what the calcium and magnesium carbonates that are formed do or don't do, post the question in Randy Holmes-Farley's forum on Reef Central. Suffice it to say that you cannot make artificial seawater by simply taking sea salt that has formed in an evaporation pond and adding it to freshwater.

P.S. -- Tell your fiancée I like peanut butter cookies.

[Samper]

Thanks Ninong, as for the cookies....I said she'll make them for you but didn't say you would get any HAH. I'll trade ya for a nice small Euphyllia parancora.