A couple LR questions

[Max]

While at my LFS I got talking to a guy who had a 55 gallon salt water tank with at least 55 pounds of live rock that he got at the same LFS. He told me that he wanted to go fresh water and asked if I wanted his live rock so I went over and took a look. His tank was so bad looking I almost cried. There was 55 pounds of live rock in this tank, totally devoid of life except for a damsel that he got at the beginning so it was a year and a half old to. His tank had a 15w 18 inch floresant and nothing else. It is a deep tank and it was so dark filled with all that rock that nothing was growing on the rock except in a few spots some not bad looking blue algae. Oh and it was infested with tiny white pin worms. Thousands of them.

Is this rock any good after sitting in that enviroment for a year and a half?

What are those worms? Are they bad?

I wanted the live rock to start a 55 gallon tank from scratch so I thought id get his live rock to cycle it with. But I didnt want to touch that stuff till I asked.

He only wanted a 100 bucks for it but I wasnt going to give him 20 in the shape they looked. What do you think?

[Ninong]

That's a tough question to answer. I would probably pass but it's really up to you. You're the one spending the money and you're the one who has actually seen the live rock.

As long as he has never used any sort of copper medication in the tank, the live rock is probably OK to use. If there is an doubt in your mind about that question, do NOT purchase the rock. Don't even take it if it's free.

[Furchin]

That's a tough question to answer. I would probably pass but it's really up to you. You're the one spending the money and you're the one who has actually seen the live rock.

As long as he has never used any sort of copper medication in the tank, the live rock is probably OK to use. If there is an doubt in your mind about that question, do NOT purchase the rock. Don't even take it if it's free.

What about the pin worms he mentions? I have them myself, and I don't know what they are or how to get rid of them, and I was hoping to mooch off the answer

[Poseidon]

They are probably just little feather dusters... No harm at all.

[Ninong]

Oh and it was infested with tiny white pin worms. Thousands of them.

Are we talking about tiny white spirals, less than 1/8" across, that lay flat against the live rock? I believe those are harmless. Just another manifestation of the various forms of life that arise in a reef tank. I have some of those, too. I also have lots of the tube worms that build little, skinny white calcareous tubes that rise about an inch or so above the live rock. Both the "pin" worms and the tube worms seem to prefer areas of lower light.

I also have zillions of small feather duster worms. These seem to thrive just about anywhere in the tank except areas of really intense light.

Sometimes something can be harmless, or even beneficial, and still be an unwelcome guest if their numbers get out of hand. You might welcome a weekend visit from your brother and his wife and two kids occasionally but a weekend visit from five of your siblings with their spouses and children would be overwhelming. No, I don't have five siblings. Just an example of one of my current "situations" in my tank. I have a thriving community of Collonista sp. snails in my tank that probably came in as eggs on a piece of live rock or something. These are tiny trochids about 1/4" across. They are "beneficial" algal grazers...but...I now have several hundred of them! They are displacing my other "valuable" snails that I would rather hold onto. These little snails reproduce at an alarming rate. They are nocturnal, so you aren't even aware that you have any during the daytime, but boy are they out in force at night. They are all over the place.

[Furchin]

Well personally I don't know that they are spirals, but they are very short, maybe 2mm long, white, and they lie flat against LR and all surfaces in my tank, especially visible on the black back. What worries me is that they can swim freely in the water with a series of rapid little forward bursts. I will try and take a picture and post tonight.

[Ninong]

Well personally I don't know that they are spirals, but they are very short, maybe 2mm long, white, and they lie flat against LR and all surfaces in my tank, especially visible on the black back. What worries me is that they can swim freely in the water with a series of rapid little forward bursts. I will try and take a picture and post tonight.

You have to remember that I have lousy eyesight. ;; Who knows what they really look like.

Whatever they are, I have a feeling they are probably OK. If you can get a sharply focused picture that shows the creatures in detail, I'm sure someone will come up with a definitive answer for you.

My guess is don't sweat it.

[Ninong]

I found this picture on Reefs.org:



The "large" creature in the middle of the picture is an amphipod. It is probably about 3/8" long. The tiny "pinwheel" shaped critters to the west and northeast of it are what I think we are talking about here. Maybe? Right?

If so, I have some of those. I think. Maybe.

I think they're harmless.

[Max]

The worms im talking about are pure white and thin, as thin as a straight pin about a quarter of an inch long and dont look to be flat but round. they look like a very skinny maggot. Like I said above his tank is very dark so the liking a place with low light fits. I have asked the LFS about his rock and if he thought it was ok and he said dont give him more than a buck a pound as is for base rock and if the worms are bothering me dump the rock in a fresh water bath for a day. Im torn and not sure what im going to do.

[Furchin]

So I got some photos, none are very good, but they're a decent approximation for the amount of detail you can pick out with a naked eye.


The picture above gives a good sense of scale. That's an Astrea snail about 3/4 of an inch across. All the tiny white dots are what my concern is. They're mostly just sitting there, doing nothing, but moving occaisionally.



This is a more upclose view. Anyone have any ideas on what these are and if they are harmful at all?

[zhenya]

I've had this things for a while untill they just disapeared on their own. I was never really able to identify them with any certainty but I felt that they could have been foraminiferans, sometimes very abundant in the early stages of the aquarium( from what I was told).

Here's a link to an article about them. In any event, I think they are harmless and nothing to worry about.

[kevinpo]

The rock should be just fine and should have plenty of life on it as long as he didn't use any medecations or algaecides on it. Low light will produce some fine coralline covered live rock as long as the calcium and alkalinity levels are maintained at near NSW (natural sea water) levels. There are very few bad creatures in a reef tank. Out of hundreds of critters maybe 3-4 are pests.
Base rock is reef rock that has been left out to dry. Dipping it in freshwater will make good rock turn into base rock and lower the value.

HTH,
Kevin

[Max]

Well I went and got that rock today. VERY nice looking rock as rock goes. Nothing growing on it , not even much algae. However, What I originally thought was little white worms is actually hundreds of little off white starfish.

Think they are bad in so many numbers. Are there any BAD starfish to begin with?
And what star fish is an off white color?

[Max]

Well I just saw a post about them it may or not be serpent stars I guess thats a good thing. I hope with so many.

[Ninong]

Max,

Some tiny white seastars are good scavengers and others are corallivores that eat polyps. It's hard to say unless you observe them for a while to see what they are eating. I wouldn't assume that they are harmful.

The terms "serpent star" or "brittle star" have no true functional or taxonomic meanings. They are not scientific terms. To complicate matters, they are often used interchangeably. Most seastars are iffy in reef aquaria. Most are ravenous omnivores that will eat whatever they can catch. Most but not all. That's the Catch 22.

It's difficult to talk about seastars in general terms. Even if you know the exact species, it's hard to be too certain of their suitability because little is known for certain about the diet of most seastars. Two seastars that are well known to be potential disasters in reef tanks are the so-called chocolate chip star (eats polyps) and the Atlantic green brittle star (sometimes eats fish).

Even those genera that are known to be harmless (e.g., Fromia spp.) may starve to death in most reef tanks because they can't find the appropriate food.

[Max]

Here is the best pic I could get of them. Im sure its hard to tell exactly what they are but maybe you can tell if they are bad or not. If not Ill just have to live with them for now.

[flip_3_6_0]

I have those starfish in my reef and they seem harmless..

[zhenya]

Hi Max,

How big are those stars? I have many of the miniature brittle stars in my tank, perhaps couple of hundred if not more that came with the detritivore kits that I purchased from couple of online vendors over the years. They are cream and tan in color and reproduce readily in the tanks and are considered good members of the detritivore crew.I have not seen them do anything bad in the tank either.

[bguile]

I happened to see one of these while observing my nano tank the other day. Was quite fascinating as it must've been on the rock b/c I didn't add any livesand or "kits" to my tank.

[Max]

Hi Max,

How big are those stars?

Hi Zhenya,

They range in size from what im sure is micro scopic to about the size of a silver dollor. Ive never seen one that big out in the open but from the size of the arms that ive seen poking out of the rock, it must have been 2 inchs across. most are around dime to nickle in size tho. I know for a fact that they like low light conditions because of the amount of them and where the rock came from so when I fire up my 250w MH this weekend I may end up either killing some of them or forcing them to go underground in the day time. Will let you all know how they react to the sun

Max