[Samper]

It's a long way away but I'm trying to get an idea of what fish I want to keep in my 75 when it gets set up. I'm trying to look as far into this systems future as I can so I can plan adequately.

Here is what I have for sure so far.
1 Premnas biaculeatus
1 Neocirrhitus armatus

I would like a fish from the Blenniidae family as well as one from the Grammatidae family, possibly a Gramma loreto but I'm open to suggestions. I'm also looking for a small group of something possibly from the family Apogonidae. With such high flow in this system I don't know if that's a good idea so your opinions are needed. I won't even think about adding a fish until the system is atleast 7 months old. After adding the first fish I'll wait about 6 months in between adding another continuing this cycle until I'm satisfied that my system doesn't need to try to handle any more bioload of this type. I'm looking for suggestions of rare/pricy captive bred, reef safe fish that not everyone has. Personality is more important to me than color is but both are of interest. Cost won't be an issue and I don't mind waiting for the right fish so please guys give me some of your suggestions. I have plenty of time to research all of them.

Thank You
Chuck

[saltjunkie]

damn... what? lol
io guess i need to start reading more .... those scientific names kill me...

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Samper

Here is what I have for sure so far.
1 Premnas biaculeatus

Why not a pair? The best thing about keeping clownfish is watching the interactions of a mated pair. Granted this is sometimes a difficult fish to pair up but it can be done.

1 Neocirrhitus armatus

Just be aware of the limitations that this fish will place on your selection of other inhabitants.

I would like a fish from the Blenniidae family as well as one from the Grammatidae family, possibly a Gramma loreto but I'm open to suggestions.

Gramma loreto is a hardy fish and a good choice for that size tank. Just stay away from wrasses and other similar shaped fish to avoid conflicts.

I'm also looking for a small group of something possibly from the family Apogonidae.

Any particular genus in mind? There are a few schooling species that are commonly seen in Japanese reef tanks. Here is a complete list of the genera in the Family Apogonidae:

• Acropoma
• Aphredoderus
• Apogon
• Apogonichthys
• Archamia
• Astrapogon
• Cheilodipterus
• Coranthus
• Foa
• Fowleria
• Glossamia
• Gymnapogon
• Phaeoptyx
• Pseudamia
• Pseudamiops
• Rhabdamia
• Siphamia
• Steindachneria
• Vencentia

I'm looking for suggestions of rare/pricy captive bred, reef safe fish that not everyone has. Personality is more important to me than color is but both are of interest.

Fortunately captive-bred fish are neither rare nor pricey; however, you are limited to clownfish, dottybacks, gobies, and very recently a couple of species of angelfish. That's captive-bred, not captive-raised. There are a few species whose pelagic larvae are collected for grow-out in captive systems.

As far as rare/pricey fish are concerned, you would be limited by the size of your tank. However there are quite a few gorgeous fish in the flasher wrasses and fairy wrasses that are beautiful, rare and pricey. I guess it all depends on your definition of pricey. I have a beautiful Cirrhilabrus lineatus that cost me $259.00 and two gorgeous Australian variant C. scottorum that were $149.00 each. Besides being gorgeous fish, they are active swimmers that are out and about all the time.

[Samper]

Originally Posted by Ninong

Why not a pair? The best thing about keeping clownfish is watching the interactions of a mated pair. Granted this is sometimes a difficult fish to pair up but it can be done.

With mine coming into maturity this will be a chore but I might give it a shot if I can find another small enough.

Originally Posted by Ninong

Just be aware of the limitations that this fish will place on your selection of other inhabitants.

This is the only downside to this awesome fish but it's a pretty big one.

Originally Posted by Ninong

Gramma loreto is a hardy fish and a good choice for that size tank. Just stay away from wrasses and other similar shaped fish to avoid conflicts.

Lower in the discussion you mention the more expensive flasher wrasses that are captive raised if I understood correctly I can't keep a gramma with the wrasse right?

Originally Posted by Ninong

Any particular genus in mind? There are a few schooling species that are commonly seen in Japanese reef tanks. Here is a complete list of the genera in the Family Apogonidae:

• Acropoma
• Aphredoderus
• Apogon
• Apogonichthys
• Archamia
• Astrapogon
• Cheilodipterus
• Coranthus
• Foa
• Fowleria
• Glossamia
• Gymnapogon
• Phaeoptyx
• Pseudamia
• Pseudamiops
• Rhabdamia
• Siphamia
• Steindachneria
• Vencentia.

I'll research these genera but I'm curious about the schooling fish from the Japanese tanks. Are any of these fish being imported to the states and if so what are they and where can they be found?

I'll also research the wrasses but with a bare bottom I'll have to be very selective. In your opinion how big of an impact are we making on the reefs by taking fish off them that can't be bred in captivity? There are so many beautiful fish that I'd love to have but if it's impacting the natural ecosystem too greatly I'll just have a few fish that aren't impacting. For sps this would be the best step toward clean water anyway right?

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Samper

Lower in the discussion you mention the more expensive flasher wrasses that are captive raised if I understood correctly I can't keep a gramma with the wrasse right?

That was a stand alone recommendation. In a 75-gal tank -- or just about anything short of 300 gallons for that matter -- you need to be selective in your choice of fish. If you want to keep a Gramma loreto, you may want to avoid adding a black cap basslet or a dottyback or certain wrasses. My Pseudochromis fridmani has caused me no problems of any kind with my three fairy wrasses but they are all much larger than him and I have no idea if he would be hospitable towards a royal gramma. So much depends on the individual fish and a host of other unpredictable variables. Fairy wrasses and flasher wrasses are peaceful fish but not all wrasses are quite that easy going.

I'll research these genera but I'm curious about the schooling fish from the Japanese tanks. Are any of these fish being imported to the states and if so what are they and where can they be found?

I really don't know. I just know that I saw some examples in some of the pictures of Japanese reef tanks that we stored in the archives here on Reefland a couple of years ago.

In your opinion how big of an impact are we making on the reefs by taking fish off them that can't be bred in captivity?

An even better question is why are we depleting fish that actually can be bred in captivity. The Banggai cardinalfish is being depleted in the wild even though it is the easiest fish in the world to breed in captivity.

Most fish stocks are replenished naturally in a fairly short period of time. That is not true for all fish but it is for most. You can find the population doubling time for just about any species on fishbase.com. The obvious exception to this would be sharks, which take a long time to increase their populations due to their reproduction methods. People who order shark fin soup should have their hands cut off before being thrown back into the parking lot to drive themselves home.

There are so many beautiful fish that I'd love to have but if it's impacting the natural ecosystem too greatly I'll just have a few fish that aren't impacting.

There are dozens of examples of animals that are being depleted from the reefs in one way or another at rates more alarming that reef fishes. Entire regions have been stripped of giant clams. Most of that has come from the food collection industry. The reef aquarium hobby has been responsible for the demise of countless thousands of host sea anemones. These animals live very long lives in the wild and are not all that fast at reproduction, except for the cloning species. And when you remove a host anemone from the wild, you doom the clownfish that were using it as a shelter. If they can't find a vacancy in another suitable anemone quickly enough they will perish.

The reefs are being negatively impacted in other ways to a far greater extent than the harm done by the reef aquarium hobby. Damage from onshore development and agriculture far exceeds damage from collection for the hobby. Dynamite food fishing is still practiced illegally in many regions. Sodium cyanide is still used illegally in ornamental fish collection in some regions. The cruise ship industry continues to do considerable damage to the reefs and even the diving tours designed for reef enthusiasts are having a negative impact.

All of that pales in comparison to the damage that is being done by global warming and the manmade additions to atmospheric carbon dioxide. http://www.fit.edu/isrs/recent%20pub...0al%202004.pdf

http://www.fit.edu/isrs/

For sps this would be the best step toward clean water anyway right?

Clean water in an SPS dominated reef tank, or any tank for that matter, depends more on your total setup than it does on the number of fish you keep. Obviously it would be easier to maintain good water quality with fewer fish but I can show you examples of spectacular reef tanks loaded with SPS that are also home to an unbelievable number of fish. Just be sure to check out the unbelievable equipment on those systems at the same time.

[Samper]

I'll go over what you just wrote a little more when I get off work but a few quick questions came to mind when scanning it the first time.

1. Do you have to keep your salinity slightyly higher for your Pseudochromis fridmani say around 40-41ppm or do they adjust fairly well?

2. Do you feel that my Es 8-2 and a mature system can handle a fairly heavy bioload say 5-7 fish and a variety of sps and lps?

[Penguin]

I recently got a bicolor blenny (Ecsenius bicolor) that I like a lot. But they're very common. If you're looking for a rare (in the trade at least) blenny, how about a E. gravieri? I would think collection impact would be negligible for this species.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Samper

1. Do you have to keep your salinity slightyly higher for your Pseudochromis fridmani say around 40-41ppm or do they adjust fairly well?

Almost all of the common dottyback species, including the three endemic to the Red Sea, are being captively bred by O.R.A. now. Mine was a captive bred fish from O.R.A. AFAIK they do not maintain Red Sea salinity levels in their breeding tanks.

I maintain my salinity between 34-35 ppt. My Pseudochromis fridmani is doing just fine at that salinity. One might consider maintaining salinity at 36-37 ppt for a Red Sea biotope tank but my tank is mixed, so I'm not considering raising the salinity above average oceanic levels. Besides, 40-41 ppm is at the extreme high end of the salinity range in the Red Sea. Levels that high are sometimes found in the northern end of the Red Sea. Other areas are usually 37-39 ppt, dropping to below that as you move south.

2. Do you feel that my Es 8-2 and a mature system can handle a fairly heavy bioload say 5-7 fish and a variety of sps and lps?

What is an Es 8-2?

The number of fish is irrelevant. It's the total biomass of the fish that counts. My Foxface Rabbitfish is equal to several dottybacks. My dottyback would be equal to several neon gobies. As an example of that, the rule of thumb for Koi biomass is that one 24" fish equals ten 12" fish and one 12" fish equals ten 6" fish and one 6" fish equals ten 3" fish.

[Samper]

It is a euro reef ES 8-2 with a sedra 5k pump.

[Ninong]

I didn't know EuroReef made an ES 8-2? They don't list it on their website: http://www.euro-reef.com/skimmers/all.html

[Samper]

You had me worried for a second although I knew I had an ES 8-2. Here is what ER told me

"The ES Series are discontinued. They are still fully supported and will continue to be so no worries.

The specs are the same as the CS8-2 and RS8-2.

-ER"

[TerryB]

Since you are new to all of this doing a lot of reading could really get you off to a good start. Here is a link to a nice library of articles. Please be sure to click on the educational resources link to see the complete list of articles available in this library.

http://www.marineaquariumadvice.com/library.html

HTH,
Terry B

[Samper]

Terry thanks for the link but I'm compiling a possible species list for the 75 I'm putting together and got a little side tracked.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Samper

You had me worried for a second although I knew I had an ES 8-2. Here is what ER told me

"The ES Series are discontinued. They are still fully supported and will continue to be so no worries.

The specs are the same as the CS8-2 and RS8-2.

-ER"

EuroReef skimmers are quite popular. I believe the only difference between the ES and CS series is that the ES used cheapy extruded acrylic tubes instead of expensive cell cast acrylic tubes.

[Samper]

HAH you are correct.