Alk/Calcium Question

[bguile]

I have been doing a lot of searching and reading posts as my tank is maturing. I want to begin adding corals to my tank and have begun to concentrate on my Ca/Alk levels. I have dosed 12ml of 2pt B-Ionic for two days. My current tank levels are:

SG 1.026
Ca 380
Alk 3.88meq/L
pH 8.28

I wanted to move my Ca/Alk numbers close to NSW and go from there so today I added 3/4oz of Ca component only to raise the calcium a little. However, I keep reading about "carbonate precipitation". I understand when it happens from all the reading...but what does it look like?? How would I know if it's happening in my tank? Also is there an ideal Ca number based on Alk and vice versa? I see many people have different numbers but was wondering that if my Alk is "this" my calcium should be "this" to be balanced.

Thanks.

[zhenya]

Have you read this article?
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-0...ture/index.htm and maybe this:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm

[Ninong]

I have been doing a lot of searching and reading posts as my tank is maturing. I want to begin adding corals to my tank and have begun to concentrate on my Ca/Alk levels. I have dosed 12ml of 2pt B-Ionic for two days. My current tank levels are:

SG 1.026
Ca 380
Alk 3.88meq/L
pH 8.28

I wanted to move my Ca/Alk numbers close to NSW and go from there so today I added 3/4oz of Ca component only to raise the calcium a little.

Your levels are OK already. Your alkalinity 3.88 mEq/l (10.9 dKH) is substantially above NSW levels but in line with ideal reef aquarium levels. Calcium of 380 mg/l is getting close to NSW levels but it is already adequate.

What you could do is just dose 15 ml (1 Tbsp) of the calcium part and 10 ml (2 tsps) of the alkalinity part until your numbers are where you would like them to be and then revert to equal amounts of each component.

However, I keep reading about "carbonate precipitation". I understand when it happens from all the reading...but what does it look like??

I think you mean "calcium carbonate precipitation." It would look like snow falling in the tank. It's not likely to happen unless your calcium is very high, well above 500 mg/l or unless you accidentally dump a ton of CaCl into your tank all at once.

I like to keep my calcium around 450-475 mg/l and my alkalinity around 10-12 dKH. Some people like their alk around 12-14 dKH, which is fine if that's what you want. Once it gets much higher than that, say above 18 dKH, it will depress your calcium levels. And if your calcium gets too high (above 500 mg/l), your alkalinity will begin to drop. There is also a school of thought that says that 7-10 dKH is ideal for alkalinity, but I don't see any reason to let it fall below 9 dKH if you can help it.

[bguile]

Thanks for the links zhenya, I'll have to check those out. I think I read another page on how to compensate for different Ca/Alk situations on the same site, but long before I needed to so I didn't get much understanding out of it.

Ninong, thanks a lot for your help and explanation. Many times I've seen posts answered and anecdotes given but the answers lack specificness. For example, I've seen many posts about not feeding brine shrimp unless their "gut loaded", but no one ever explains what that means. Is that something you buy? or do they mean feed the shrimp before you feed them to the fish? You're explaining of precipitation helps that I dont have to worry about it until above 500ppm which was never mentioned in the many posts I've searched. I would like for my calcium to be around 425-450 to start so I will follow your method.

Thanks again. You're a great asset to this site!

[Ninong]

For example, I've seen many posts about not feeding brine shrimp unless their "gut loaded", but no one ever explains what that means. Is that something you buy? or do they mean feed the shrimp before you feed them to the fish?

It means exactly what you suspect: Feed the shrimp before you feed them to the fish.

Brine shrimp are non-selective filter feeders and feed on particulate matter of biological origin as well as on living organisms of the appropriate size range (microscopic algae and bacteria). I have never bothered with DIY brine shrimp hatching like some more energetic hobbyists I know but I believe you can enrich baby brine shrimp nauplii with vitamins (Selcon, etc.) rich in HUFAs (highly unsaturated fatty acids) and you can feed adult brine shrimp live phytoplankton, such as D.T.'s.

OK, I decided to look this up in Joyce Wilkerson's excellent book, Clownfishes, to make sure I remembered it correctly. About 16 to 24 hours after you put the brine shrimp cysts into your saltwater hatchery they will begin hatching. In this first stage they do not feed but they are nutritious because of the orange colored yolk reserves. About 12 hours after hatching they go through their first molt. You now have second stage brine shrimp and then after another 12 hours you will have large third stage brine shrimp.

First stage brine shrimp cannot be enriched because they do not feed but they are nutritious all by themselves because of the yolk reserves. You can enrich second stage brine shrimp with something like Selcon (2.5 ml [1/2 tsp] of Selcon per gallon of culture or 0.3 ml of the concentrated Selco). According to Joyce, brine shrimp will become adults in about 10 days and will live more than 7 weeks. She says that you can feed them just about anything less than 60 micrometers in diameter: Live phytoplankton, yeast (both active and inactive), rice bran, whey, wheat flour, soybean powder, fish meal, egg yolk, homogenized liver and dried microalgae, such as Spirulina (from health food stores). But do not overfeed.

I guess you would start out with just Selcon after the nauplii are more than 12 hours old and then gradually move up to live phyto, etc.

[zhenya]

George,

Now that i got myself some fish that will depend on the live food, probably for remainder of their lives, I had ordered a hatchery made by Aqua-Medic and will give it a go with the brine. My only hope that I will get enough brine and some pods from the small fuge to keep those two fish going. I am talking about the Mandarin and Copperband.
Thanks for posting the dosage on the Selcon, I do not have Joyce Wilkerson's book yet.

[Ninong]

George,

Now that i got myself some fish that will depend on the live food, probably for remainder of their lives, I had ordered a hatchery made by Aqua-Medic and will give it a go with the brine. My only hope that I will get enough brine and some pods from the small fuge to keep those two fish going. I am talking about the Mandarin and Copperband.
Thanks for posting the dosage on the Selcon, I do not have Joyce Wilkerson's book yet.

Gene,

Have you ever considered culturing rotifers instead? They're much smaller and provide great food for your SPS as well as your fish. Also, you would need to culture greenwater (phytoplankton) to feed the rotifers and that's great food for your filter feeders (clams, feather dusters, etc.) plus all your copepods.

One of the German manufacturers (Aqua-Medic?) makes a rotifer culture thingy that they call a "zooplankton reactor" that allows for automatic dosing of rotifers at regular intervals -- an interesting concept.




Here it is (Aqua-Medic), both a phytoplankton reactor and a zooplankton reactor: http://www.aqua-medic.de/index0.html Click on the three little yellow supplement bottles just above the Titan chiller.

[zhenya]

George,

I had looked at that particular reactor and contemplated buying it instead of nauplii reactor. Culturing phyto is something I don't think I want to do as I have good contact for the DT's and get it fresh in whatever quantity I need. I know that Joe Burger is culturing rotifers and is very happy with it. Perhaps I will get the reactor in the future and contact Joe and pick his brain a bit on how he does it.
bguile, sorry for hijacking your thread. I'll bother Ninong via PM from now on.

[bguile]

Lol...no problem dude! I love reading all these posts. It lets me know what can be done in this hobby. I dont think I have the capacity to grow or culture anything at this point, but it's good to know should I decide to. Also Ninong I do have Wilkerson's Clownfishes book, but so far I've mostly skipped around. I got it to find out about raising clowns just in case my clowns decided to spawn . I saw a pair tending to eggs in the main display in a LFS. It was pretty cool.

I bought a portion of brine shrimp to feed my tank and crumbled up spirulina flakes, and gave them cyclop-eeze before feeding them to the fish just in case that was what gut loaded meant. I noticed after 15 min or so, the spirulina or cyclop-eeze wasn't on top of the water so I figured they ate it making them more nutritious . I think I just found out a way to feed the fish what they need..they dont eat their vegetables!