[Samper]

Since I have this massive patch of Xenia should I be dosing atleast a little?

[scubadude]

From what I have heard most of us are usually below our levels for the amount of iodine or iodide in our reef aquariums versus NSW but alot of us have theories that if it works fine w/out adding anything dont mess w/it, and from what Russ aka smlpolyp told me is that it would be pretty costly to maintain the NSW level of iodine in our system. I dont think there is anything wrong with dosing a little bit every month though. I would do a test in incremental stages and monitor your dosage and its effect to see where it takes you. I believe if memory serves me correctly Iodine helps in coloration too.

[Samper]

I don't have a test kit for it, perhaps that should be my next investment, a bottle of lugols and a good iodine test.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by scubadude

From what I have heard most of us are usually below our levels for the amount of iodine or iodide in our reef aquariums versus NSW...

I have read that in many of the usual sources -- articles written for the hobby by certain well known hobby authors -- but I have yet to find anything that substantiates those claims. On the contrary, I have found much that refutes them.

... but alot of us have theories that if it works fine w/out adding anything dont mess w/it,...

A common sense approach that would save many newcomers a lot of money, headaches and heartache.

...and from what Russ aka smlpolyp told me is that it would be pretty costly to maintain the NSW level of iodine in our system.

I wonder why he thinks that???

I dont think there is anything wrong with dosing a little bit every month though.

What if your iodine levels are already above NSW levels WITHOUT your adding any iodine supplements? Iodine is highly toxic, why add it unless you know for sure that your iodine concentration is below NSW levels?

I would do a test in incremental stages and monitor your dosage and its effect to see where it takes you.

Yes, definitely test for it BEFORE you add any. You may very well find that your iodine levels are already at or above NSW levels.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Samper

I don't have a test kit for it, perhaps that should be my next investment, a bottle of lugols and a good iodine test.

No, your next investment should be in time. The time it takes to research this topic. You could start by doing a search on this board. This topic has been discussed continuously for the past four years. I ran a search just now to see how many times I have personally mentioned iodine and got 29 threads: http://www.reefland.com/forum/search.php?searchid=84206

You might also want to look at the test results of the samples of tankwater from the 23 hobbyists on Reef Central who participated in Dr. Ron Shimek's study three years ago. Samples of water from their reeftanks were submitted to a laboratory in Redmond, Washington for ICP scan analysis. One of the elements measured was iodine. The tank with the lowest concentration of iodine had double NSW iodine and the tank with the highest concentration had 34 times NSW iodine levels. The mean (half the samples above and half below) was 9 times NSW levels of iodine! Some of those aquarists dosed iodine regularly and some of them never dosed iodine. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-0...ture/index.htm

You might also want to read Shimek's earlier study on the analysis of the foods we feed our tanks. Be sure to look at the iodine concentrations: http://web.archive.org/web/200306081...data/foods.asp

And, I believe you recently purchased Wayne Shang's new book, The Captive Marine Aquarium, right? Check out the pictures of his reef tanks (both the previous 300-gal tank and the new 718-gal tank). They appear to be well stocked to me and everything appears to be thriving, right? Now turn to page 49 and check out his iodine level: 0.06 ppm (same as NSW). Wayne has never dosed iodine! He says that it isn't necessary to dose iodine because iodine levels are maintained by the food he feeds without any supplementation. (I noticed that Wayne's tank is featured in the December 2004/January 2005 issue of Coral magazine.) If you can't find his comments about iodine (I looked but couldn't find them myself), feel free to email him and ask him yourself: wayne@underseadiscovery.net Don't forget to mention that you bought his book on my recommendation. I have found him to be very willing to answer questions via email.

P.S. -- I have never dosed iodine in my tank and yet my test results are usually 0.20 ppm using the Salifert test. That's about three times NSW levels.

[Ninong]

Just out of curiosity, I decided to see if Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley has written anything on iodine and I found that he has:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2003/chem.htm Pay particular attention to his advice on dosing and his comments about testing.

and http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...l2003/chem.htm

Isn't it refreshing to read articles written by people who know what they are talking about? Such a contrast with the books written by certain "hobby authors" who recommend dosing everything under the sun and then it just so happens that they sell everything under the sun -- even products that have been proven to be more than 99.9% water!

[scubadude]

Originally Posted by Ninong

What if your iodine levels are already above NSW levels? What if they are actually increasing all the time WITHOUT your adding any iodine supplements? Iodine is highly toxic, why add it unless you know for sure that your iodine concentration is below NSW levels?

Ninong,
I agree totally, I should have said that testing the levels would be the first and foremost priority. I just took it for granted that it was a given.

Originally Posted by Ninong

P.S. -- I have never dosed iodine in my tank and yet my test results are usually 0.20 ppm using the Salifert test. That's about three times NSW levels.

Just curious do you have xenia in your tank? Or GSP's? Last I read on your thread I dont recall you haveing these corals in your system. I know them uptaking Iodine is probably another whole thread

[scubadude]

Originally Posted by Ninong

Isn't it refreshing to read articles written by people who know what they are talking about? Such a contrast with the books written by certain "hobby authors" who recommend dosing everything under the sun and then it just so happens that they sell everything under the sun -- even products that have been proven to be more than 99.9% water!

[Samper]

That's the whole reason I was asking cause I have a huge patch of Xenia and I've read that they take up the iodine pretty quickly. I'll get a test just to see where I'm at. I don't want to dose anything that I don't have to but this patch is huge.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by scubadude

Just curious do you have xenia in your tank? Or GSP's?

I have no intention of keeping either of those because they grow like weeds and take over in no time at all.

Don't believe everything you read about Xenia spp. and iodine. Just because an organism accumulates something doesn't mean it requires it any more than it "requires" any of the other elements found in natural seawater. Using that reasoning, one might think that tuna require mercury. They most certainly accumulate it at levels far exceeding NSW concentration. What about lead? Or strontium? We accumulate all of those things, too, and they are quite toxic to us, too. Natural seawater levels of the various major and minor elements, and trace elements, should be our goal with the exception of calcium and alkalinity, which have proven to be beneficial at levels somewhat above NSW levels. Iodine and strontium, two elements proven to be toxic at elevated levels, should not be maintained at levels much above NSW levels.

What are the chances that none of the 23 tanks in Ron's study housed Xenia? Probably slim to none. I'm sure Xenia was well represented in that cross section of typical reeftanks.

Surely, you say, there must be studies showing that Xenia and other soft corals need iodine from the water column? Well, I could find none. There may be studies that I could not find, and regardless of whether there are studies, iodine in the water column may or may not have a significant impact on these organisms. Nevertheless, there is no published basis (that I could find) for many of the claims about iodine. -- Randy Holmes-Farley, Ph.D. in chemistry, BA in chemistry and biology, Vice-President, Chemical Research, Genzyme http://www.genzyme.com/corp/structure/corp_home.asp

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Samper

That's the whole reason I was asking cause I have a huge patch of Xenia and I've read that they take up the iodine pretty quickly. I'll get a test just to see where I'm at. I don't want to dose anything that I don't have to but this patch is huge.

What about shrimp? Don't they take up iodine, too? Sure they do and because it's toxic to them, they detoxify by accumulating it in their exoskeletons and then molting!



P.S. -- The idea that you should add iodine to help your shrimp molt is ridiculous. Adding iodine will certainly help them molt alright! Crustacean molting would only be impacted by iodine levels that fell substantially below NSW levels. Adding iodine so that your levels were substantially above NSW levels would have a negative impact on your shrimp and everything else in your system and yet I continue to see posts where people advise dosing iodine to help your crustaceans molt.

P.P.S. -- OK, so you didn't ask about shrimp. I know that, it's just one of my examples of all the mythinformation that floats around in this hobby. I think most of it was started by LFS trying to sell all the magic potions on their shelves.

[Samper]

I trust ya Ninong
I'll go through and read the articles but what your saying sounds reasonable. I won't add it.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Samper

I trust ya Ninong
I'll go through and read the articles but what your saying sounds reasonable. I won't add it.

Never add anything to your tank unless you know for sure that your tank is deficient in what you are about to add. That will not only save money, it will avoid potential problems.

Never add anything unless you know exactly what it is and how it's supposed to "work." This applies to "cures" and "additives." Never buy anything with the word "magic" in the name. Never buy any product that refuses to list the ingredients on the label. Would you drink something if you had no idea what it was?

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by Ninong

Never buy any product that refuses to list the ingredients on the label. Would you drink something if you had no idea what it was?

Maybe, if your last name was Bonds.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Penguin

Maybe, if your last name was Bonds.

"Whatever."

[Sub-Mariner]

Very Useful Info - all, I agree 100% about not adding anything you dont' need and I have seen the folly first hand w/ iodine myself. at the suggestion of a shop keeper and other reefers I added iodine to help w/ failing *mushroom* colonies (losing some neon green and red tonga type mushrooms as well as some other bumpy -rhodactis <sp?> species.. while discosomma were doing well)

A once thriving xenia colony immediately began to decline (at same time i had salinit issues in tank and suspected that instead due to all the *info* out there about how xenia liked iodine)...
and while I admit to not testing i can see a strong correlation and will stop adding iodine and test all othr parameters before adding back any new xenia to see if i can grow it again..

thanks for the point in the right direction.. and just for curiousity's sake, any advice on salvaging the shrooms??

Joe in OKC

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Sub-Mariner

thanks for the point in the right direction.. and just for curiousity's sake, any advice on salvaging the shrooms??

Joe in OKC

Hi Sub-Mariner, welcome to Reefland!

What are your present water parameters? If your pH, calcium and alkalinity are all within normal ranges, then the next question would be whether you are dosing limewater (Kalkwasser) and, if so, exactly how or whether you are dosing one of the two-part additives instead. If you have a calcium reactor, then you may not be dosing either of those at all as long as your calcium reactor is keeping up with things. Is your salinity stable now?

The reason I ask is because some people have noticed that mushrooms are particularly sensitive to sudden additions of limewater. Those people found out the hard way that it needs to be dripped slowly and not added too quickly.

If your pH, calcium and alk are all within acceptable ranges and you are no longer adding things like strontium or iodine without testing for them first, then hopefully your shrooms will recover.

Good luck,

[Sub-Mariner]

thanks for the welcome and quick response!

I'll begin by bowing my head in shame and admitting that i am the world's worst at testing my waters.. i have spent years in fw planted and have *learned* to simply use the plant growth as water parameter indicators, and hve tried to emulate the same in salt to less success so far... more from lack of patience with certain additives than anything else i'd suspect..
I do of course ck my salinity and yes I *believe* it is under control now.. my calcium, ph, and alkalinity all seem to be w/in tolerances as well from testing and im testing my alkalinity today again too just to see if ive been adding TOO much calcium..
I use Seachem Reef Complete and Reef Plus (so probably dont' need anymore stront, or iodine) ;-)
i dose twice a week in a 40 gal (3 capfuls) once after water change (10-20% more or less weekly) and once at mid point between.
I feed DTs and flake -alternating daily - w/ some interruptions in between, to the two fish - lawn mower blenny and a pink psuedochromis, and one peppermint shrimp.

I *try* to add Reef Builder and Marine Buffer to my make up water before changes as well to keep that pH and Kh up too...

My xenia was reproducing wkly before and i was selling it back to the shops but in the last month hs died completely off and the two additions i've made since have likewise melted (two diff species tried at last attempt) -these being frags from ppl that i had originally fragged to.. so same exact animal colony coming back w/o success.

my discosommus and flat rhodactis shrooms are doing great, the bumpy kind and tonga are either bleaching, shrinking, or melting (and I moved them low down in tank as soon as i saw problems..)

I had suspected my salinity issues, but now w/ today's research i suspect i may hve OD'd them on iodine.. since i also have some softies that have lost vigor lately as well.

I plan to add some charcoal to my filter today and do a good wter change then quit adding iodine from now on..
im going to ck my food and other additives, but i'd bet that my iodine levels will be just fine w/ those from now on..

any comments plz let me know..
(sorry so long but wanted to cover all bases)

joe (in sunny and warm OKC!)

Originally Posted by Ninong

Hi Sub-Mariner, welcome to Reefland!

What are your present water parameters? If your pH, calcium and alkalinity are all within normal ranges, then the next question would be whether you are dosing limewater
Good luck,

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Sub-Mariner

any comments plz let me know..


joe (in sunny and warm OKC!)

Dude,

Sunny and warm OKC???

Right now you're 36, feels like 32! That's COLD!
http://msnbc.com/news/wea_front.asp?...accid=USOK0400


Right now, I'm 61, feels like 61! That's cool but not too cool.
http://msnbc.com/news/wea_front.asp?...accid=USLA0379

[Sub-Mariner]

ha! u caught me being facetious.. well, from my warm study, it appeared much nicer..
but for December, I can't complain.. though 61 does sound much nicer
;-)P

Originally Posted by Ninong

Dude,

Sunny and warm OKC???

Right now you're 36, feels like 32! That's COLD!
http://msnbc.com/news/wea_front.asp?...accid=USOK0400


Right now, I'm 61, feels like 61! That's cool but not too cool.
http://msnbc.com/news/wea_front.asp?...accid=USLA0379