[TankU]

I have 4 damsels that made it through the cycling of my take about a year ago now. I thought I was doing a good deed by keeping them. It turns out that they are the most aggressive fish I have. I have been trying to catch them with no luck due to the amount of rock and coral I have. Is there a trick to this or am I to impatient. Would it be easier at feedings? Early morning? Late evening? I am open to suggestions.
Thanks,
TankU
I am starting to think it would be easier to take what I can from my tank and try to catch these damsels. The reason I would like to get them out is due to the aggresiveness they are toward my birthday gifts. (Strawberry gramma and Bicolor Angelfish).I'm scared of stressing other things if I remove to much rock in trying to capture these things. Any thoughts from any one would be helpful.
Thanks again,

[Spick]

I Know damsels are tough to catch from experience... however i found a good way (yet mean) to get tehm out. Almost all damsels are territorial, so they have a home in one of your rocks where they will hide all the time. make your damsels aware that you are going to catrch them by using yur net first, then once they are in their home (rock) you pull the rock out of the water, and hope to shake them out. I've managed to do this with 3 damsels now, and all survived. you can do this with the lights on no problem.

Secondly, a Bicolor Angelfish (and angelfish in general), are aggressive fish. Make sure your putting the right kind of fish in your system. Be aware of your fish's characteristics.

Let me know how your damsels removal goes...

[Ninong]

Besides the four damsels and the new bicolor angelfish and "strawberry gramma," do you still have the two tangs and two clownfish? If so, you may have an intolerable situation on your hands in that agression may get out of hand and become very stressful on your fish.

I don't have any damsels but everyone says they are very difficult to remove. Some people have even removed all of the live rock in order to catch them.

Good luck!



P.S. -- What is a "strawberry gramma?" Is that the name the LFS sold it under? I wonder if that is the same as a strawberry dottyback (aka magenta dottyback, aka purple dottyback)? Check out this link and see if your fish looks like this: http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/Spec...ame=porphyreus

The scientific name used by fishbase, Pseudochromis porphyreus, is outdated. The new name is Pictichromis porphyrea.

[ricksreef]

they've changed the genus classification of psuedo's? ugh! it's
gettin' tough keeping track of all the changes that have been
going on in the last few years. do you happen to know who did
the paper on'em?

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by ricksreef

they've changed the genus classification of psuedo's? ugh! it's
gettin' tough keeping track of all the changes that have been
going on in the last few years. do you happen to know who did
the paper on'em?

I'm not sure, but I believe it was Dr. A. C. Gill. Or, to put it another way, I'm not sure if he did it all by himself or not because a lot of his publications are co-authored with G. R. Allen, A. J. Edwards, J. E. Randall et al. The reason I think it was Gill is because I identified an unnamed dottyback for someone on Reef Central (a picture of it was in Scott Michael's new book, Basslets, Dottybacks & Hawkfishes).

The RC member had posted a picture that was an exact match for the unnamed species pictured in the book. So then I looked in the bibliography to see what I could find and I found this reference (among many attributed to the same person): Gill, A. C. 2003. Revision of the Indo-Pacific Dottyback Fish Sub-family Pseudochrominae (Perciformes: Pseudochromidae). Smithiana Monograph 1, 213 p. There are several other references, including one that was in press at the time of publication of Michael's book that is co-authored with G. R. Allen.

So... I did an online search for Dr. A. C. Gill and finally found him, including his homepage. I forwarded that info to the RC member and he contacted Dr. Gill via email. They had a very good exchange and Dr. Gill was able to tell him the name of the unnamed dottyback, or I should say that he was able to tell him the name that it was going to have once it was approved or whatever you call it.

Not all fish in the genus Pseudochromis have been reclassified but many of them have. It looks like there are a few new genera now and Pictichromis is just one of them. I guess I could go though all of the dottybacks named (and unnamed) in Scott Michael's new book and then try to figure out their former names but that sounds like a lot of trouble. He doesn't give you the former names. Obviously some of them are easy to figure out.

[ricksreef]

kewl! thanks. looks like it's google time

[Gonzo82]

I know your pain. I have been in the process of catching two damsels in my 29 gallon for about a month now. I put them in there to cycle the tank and they are now a huge problem. They chase my clown, pick on my cleaner shrimp, and even the hermets. My advice to anyone else would be to go with the fishless cycle and stay away from damsels. This would save you a lot of headache in the future. I know on my next tank i wont be using damsels. If anybody has any good ideas on how to catch them please tell me. I have tried to 2 liter an all i cought was my cleaner.

[Ninong]

Rick,

Here are the genera listed in Scott Michael's new book:

Genus Cypho (Oblique-lined Dottybacks)

Cypho purpurascens
C. zaps

Genus Labrachinus (Lined Dottybacks)

Labrachinus cyclophthalmus
L. lineatus

Genus Manonichthys (Bigfinned Dottybacks)

Manonichthys alleni (This one was named by Gill in 2003 and dedicated to Allen).
M. paranox
M. polynemus
M. splendens

Genus Ogilbyina (Australian Dottybacks)

Ogilbyina novaehollandiae
O. queenslandiae

Genus Oxycercichthys (Sailfin Dottyback)

Oxycercichthys velifera

Genus Polidochromis (Scaly Dottyback)

Polidochromis sp. (Cherry Dottyback) This is one of the unnamed ones and is the one the guy on RC posted a picture of. Dr. Gill told him the new species name but I forgot what it was.

Genus Pictichromis (Magenta Dottybacks)

Pictichromis diadema
P. paccagnellae
P. porphyrea

Genus Pseudochromis (Common Dottybacks)

Pseudochromis aldabraensis
P. bitaeniatus
P. caudalis
P. coccinicauda
P. cyanotaenia
P. dilectus
P. dixurus
P. elongatus
P. flammicauda
P. flavivertex
P. fridmani
P. fuscus
P. howsoni
P. marshallensis
P. moorei
P. nigrovittatus
P. olivaceus
P. persicus
P. perspicillatus
P. pesi
P. pictus
P. plyei
P. punctatus
P. sankeyi
Pseudochromis sp. (Raja Dottyback, Bantanta Dottyback) unnamed
Pseudochromis sp. (Yellowbelly Dottyback, Karimunjawa Dottyback) unnamed
P. springeri
P. steenei
Pseudochromis sp. (Tono's Dottyback, Sumatran Dottyback) unnamed

Genus Chlidichthys

Chlidichthys inornatus

Genus Lubbockichthys (Lubbock's Dottybacks)

L. multisquamatus

Genus Pseudoplesiops (Secretive Dottybacks)

Pseudoplesiops collare
P. rosae
P. typus


P.S. -- Scott Michael says there are 85 species of Dottybacks, so I guess that's about half of them.

[ricksreef]

Ninong, thx again.
gonzo, try hooking a decent sized fish net (8"-10") on the side of your
tank & place the fishfood inside it when you feed. they'll avoid it for a
bit but after a couple of days most fish will venture in to get the grub.
once they're comfortable going in to feed you can usually snatch
the net out with the fish inside. be sure you can do it quick & easy,
as they usually won't fall for it a second time .

[saltjunkie]

all fish... rest at night with the lights off.. i have had success removing the fish by waiting up till 3 or 4 am... flipping all the lights on.. it startles teh fish (stress) but they are confused and disoriented for a few.... may give you the chance to swip them all out...

other than that.. its time to remove everryt hing and reaarange!.. good luck

[TankU]

Thanks for all the feed back. We ended up having to pull everything out to catch these damsels....We took our time and it was a success. Everything is doing well. I currently have 2 common clown fish, 1 lemon eye tang, 1 yellow tang, 1 banded coral shrimp, 1 engineer coby, and 1 blennie. The strawberry gramma is a name I got from a guide to salt water written by Gregory Skomal. The LFS sold it as Friedmani gramma, it is identified in most other books as Pseudochromis Porphyreus. The Bicolor angelfish was bought for my birthday this month by my sister in law. She had seen it in a tropical fish book written by Dick Mills and it is featured as a peaceful fish for community tanks. I am open to any suggestions on the mix of fish I have.

I would like to say that I am still very new at this and I find this site to be excellent. This web site is as addictive as the 55 gallon tank I have. Again Thanks to everyone. Oh yeah, the tank is doing very good since getting the damsels out. Everything seems to be very calm and peacefull.

TankU

[Reefland]

Hi TankU,

I am glad to hear that you got the Damsels out peacefully; I hope that you were able to return them to the store for a little credit.

As mentioned earlier, you do have a lot of fish in the 55 gallon tank and may end up with some serious territory/stress problems from the load. It probably would have been a wise choice to remove at least one of the tangs when you had the tank apart to try and mitigate any future problems but... too late for that now.

[TankU]

Hey Scott,

I will keep that in mind. I have had a fresh water tank for years and what you buy for this tank is fish. Most of my fish have been gift cause people don't know a lot about what to buy for salt water. Right now everything seems to be good. I am thinking about changing my 29 gallon fresh water to salt water. Is there any secrets? If I could do this it would make a place for one or two of the fish in my 55 gallon. Oh yeah before I close I have what appears to be two types of worms that seem to come out at night. I was looking at thread where some one had flat worms on his rocks and the recommendations was flatworm exit or a wrasses. I have these worms as well as bristle?? (a pink) worm that is in my crush coral bottom. Is there a solution for these? I to would rather use something natural if at all possible but would rather get these things before they get me.

Thanks for all your help.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by TankU

Thanks for all the feed back. We ended up having to pull everything out to catch these damsels....We took our time and it was a success.

I think that was a good move.

I currently have 2 common clown fish, 1 lemon eye tang, 1 yellow tang,...

You should watch your tangs carefully. A 55-gal tank is marginal, at best, for one tang. It would have been better to have gone with just the yellow tang instead of two tangs.

...1 banded coral shrimp,...

Interesting but probably the most aggressive of all the shrimp.

... 1 engineer coby,...

An engineer goby may get a bit large for a 55-gal tank and it will definitely rearrange your rock structure by undermining it.

... and 1 blennie.

Any idea what blennie?

The strawberry gramma is a name I got from a guide to salt water written by Gregory Skomal. The LFS sold it as Friedmani gramma, it is identified in most other books as Pseudochromis Porphyreus.

The "strawberry gramma" is NOT a gramma and never has been. That particular common name is sometimes misused (usually in the U.K.) for the strawberry dottyback, which is also known as the purple dottyback or the magenta dottyback. It's correct scientific name now is Pictichromis prophyrea. It's former scientific name was Pseudochromis porphyreus. This is a somewhat agressive dottyback.

You should hope that the LFS was correct and that your fish is actually an orchid dottyback (Pseudochromis fridmani) -- which is a dottyback and not a gramma. Pseudochromis fridmani has a much better temperment than Pictichromis porphyrea and is much less likely to be aggressive towards other fish in your tank like Pictichromis porphyrea.

It's easy to tell the difference between the two species:

• Pseudochromis fridmani is more expensive than Pictichromis porphyrea.

• Pseudochromis fridmani has a black slash (a mask) that runs through the eye, Pictichromis prophyrea does not.

• Pseudochromis fridmani has purple dorsal and anal fins, the dorsal and anal fins on Pictichromis porphyrea are lacking in coloration -- they are mostly clear.

The Bicolor angelfish was bought for my birthday this month by my sister in law. She had seen it in a tropical fish book written by Dick Mills and it is featured as a peaceful fish for community tanks.

Centropyge bicolor is one of the larger dwarf angelfish species. It is considered difficult to keep and most of them don't make it. I don't believe I would consider it the most peaceful of the dwarf angelfishes. It can sometimes be quite aggressive. It all depends on what other fish are in the tank with it.

I am open to any suggestions on the mix of fish I have.

Consider removing the engineer goby as it will get too big and it will be too disruptive. Consider the possibility that you may need to remove one of the tangs at some point.

[conda]

Originally Posted by TankU

I was looking at thread where some one had flat worms on his rocks and the recommendations was flatworm exit or a wrasses. I have these worms as well as bristle?? (a pink) worm that is in my crush coral bottom. Is there a solution for these? I to would rather use something natural if at all possible but would rather get these things before they get me.

Check out the links in this thread: Live Rock Critters?

Someone posted info on critters that live in rocks and sand.

Here is what a bristle worm looks like:

http://www.reefs.org/hhfaq/pages/pic...q_bristle.html

I found two of them in my rocks now. Supposidly they are good.

[TankU]

I will continue to keep an eye on the tangs. They are probably the older of the fish that I have. My wife bought the lemon eye as a gift and my oldest son bought the yellow tang as a gift. So far so good.
The engineer goby is small at this time, if it gets to large I will return it.(It was a gift from my sister in law.)
I am not sure of the blennie's full description. Do they vary in behavior? This ones seems to be doing very well.
With your description of my "Strawberry Gramma" and what I have learned it is the Pseudochromis Fridmani.
Thanks again for the feed back.
TankU

Originally Posted by Ninong

I think that was a good move.



You should watch your tangs carefully. A 55-gal tank is marginal, at best, for one tang. It would have been better to have gone with just the yellow tang instead of two tangs.




Interesting but probably the most aggressive of all the shrimp.



An engineer goby may get a bit large for a 55-gal tank and it will definitely rearrange your rock structure by undermining it.



Any idea what blennie?



The "strawberry gramma" is NOT a gramma and never has been. That particular common name is sometimes misused (usually in the U.K.) for the strawberry dottyback, which is also known as the purple dottyback or the magenta dottyback. It's correct scientific name now is Pictichromis prophyrea. It's former scientific name was Pseudochromis porphyreus. This is a somewhat agressive dottyback.

You should hope that the LFS was correct and that your fish is actually an orchid dottyback (Pseudochromis fridmani) -- which is a dottyback and not a gramma. Pseudochromis fridmani has a much better temperment than Pictichromis porphyrea and is much less likely to be aggressive towards other fish in your tank like Pictichromis porphyrea.

It's easy to tell the difference between the two species:

• Pseudochromis fridmani is more expensive than Pictichromis porphyrea.

• Pseudochromis fridmani has a black slash (a mask) that runs through the eye, Pictichromis prophyrea does not.

• Pseudochromis fridmani has purple dorsal and anal fins, the dorsal and anal fins on Pictichromis porphyrea are lacking in coloration -- they are mostly clear.

Centropyge bicolor is one of the larger dwarf angelfish species. It is considered difficult to keep and most of them don't make it. I don't believe I would consider it the most peaceful of the dwarf angelfishes. It can sometimes be quite aggressive. It all depends on what other fish are in the tank with it.



Consider removing the engineer goby as it will get too big and it will be too disruptive. Consider the possibility that you may need to remove one of the tangs at some point.

[TankU]

Originally Posted by conda

Check out the links in this thread: Live Rock Critters?

Someone posted info on critters that live in rocks and sand.

Here is what a bristle worm looks like:

http://www.reefs.org/hhfaq/pages/pic...q_bristle.html

I found two of them in my rocks now. Supposidly they are good.

Thanks. What I have is solid pinkish in color in my crush coral bottom. It does look like the pic jsut isn't two colors. The ones on the rock are similar in looks just smaller and white in color. Oh yeah I learned that I have amphipods. My biggest concern is if these creatures can over take the tank and if so what can I do to balance my system? Any and all help will be appreciated.
TankU

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by TankU

I am not sure of the blennie's full description. Do they vary in behavior?

Yes, they do vary in behavior. In fact, they vary in behavior quite a lot. It is highly improbable that you have one of the really dangerous blennies (e.g., fang-toothed blenny). In fact, you may not even have a blenny at all since most of the fish that I see in the LFS that are called blennies, are not. If I had to bet money on it, I would bet that what you have is not a blenny. If you can post a picture of it, we may be able to ID it for you.

It's one of the more laughable aspects of the hobby that most LFS are clueless when it comes to fish identification. For example, some dragonets are sold as "scooter blennies," while other dragonets are sold as "mandarin gobies."

Last time I checked there were six families of 127 genera and 732 species of true blennies. And that's without counting all the different fish that are sold as blennies that aren't.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by TankU

Oh yeah I learned that I have amphipods. My biggest concern is if these creatures can over take the tank and if so what can I do to balance my system?

Amphipods are good. The more you have, the better. They are live food for all your fish. You will also want to make sure you have a decent population of copepods. They are good, too, only much smaller than amphipods. Check your live rock and sand bed late at night after the tank's lights are off and the room is dark. Use a red flashlight to do this. You want to see a lot of movement of tiny critters scurrying around on your live rock and sand bed. You might also see some bristleworms, too. Almost all of those are beneficial scavengers.