Lace Rock

[NoSump]

Ninong:

I saw an interesting post in which Samper stated that over time Lace Rock takes on the properties of live rock.

I havn't been able to clarify Samper's post. Are you familiar with what exactly he was suggesting? Is it simply that the same coraline algae that grows on live rock eventually covers lace rock (how long does the process take)? I would assume that lace rock never (based on it's structure) fullys takes on all the benefits of live rock (i.e. filtration).

As I'm considering additional live rock, I am very interested in your input in regard to this issue (I'd rather add some inexpensive lace rock and be patient than fill my tank with expensive live rock).

Also, in my diatom algae problem post, you mentioned that your problem cleared up over time. Did you do anything to facilitate it's eradication (add algae crew, chemicals, etc) or did it simply clear as your tank matured?

Thanks.

Chuck

[Poseidon]

Eventually the lace rock will be covered in Coralline AND it will also take on the filtration properties of what was purchased as "live" over time! The bacteria that live inside don't really care how the rock was purchased, they just see a place to grow!

[Ninong]

Ninong:

I saw an interesting post in which Samper stated that over time Lace Rock takes on the properties of live rock.

What he means is that dead rock will become live rock in time. Live rock has the advantage of being already alive and loaded with a wide range of beneficial bacteria and other organisms.

I havn't been able to clarify Samper's post. Are you familiar with what exactly he was suggesting? Is it simply that the same coraline algae that grows on live rock eventually covers lace rock (how long does the process take)? I would assume that lace rock never (based on it's structure) fullys takes on all the benefits of live rock (i.e. filtration).

You don't have to start out with 100% live rock if you don't want to. I admit that I went with 100% fully cured live rock but different strokes for different folks. Some folks might prefer uncured live rock, others might start out with just 1/3 live rock and the rest something cheaper. Very few Europeans start with all live rock because it is much more expensive over there. Most of them use only about 1/3 or less of real live rock. They use either "holey rock" (limestone with holes) or artificial ceramic rocks.

As I'm considering additional live rock, I am very interested in your input in regard to this issue (I'd rather add some inexpensive lace rock and be patient than fill my tank with expensive live rock).

Whatever suits you personally. I don't think there's all that much difference in cost between all live rock over here and the other options.

Also, in my diatom algae problem post, you mentioned that your problem cleared up over time. Did you do anything to facilitate it's eradication (add algae crew, chemicals, etc) or did it simply clear as your tank matured?

It's not really a problem, it's just part of the cycle. It cleared up in about two weeks without any help from me. I did have a couple of fighting conchs (Strombus alatus) that found it tasty, but I doubt if they made much difference. These guys are nice, but I found that my 120-gal tank did not provide them with sufficient algae of the right type to keep them going. They lasted only about 16 months. Maybe I'll try just one more if I can find a really small one, say about 1" long. The first two were about 1.75" long when I got them and about 2.25" long when they expired.

[Samper]

Although the lace rock will become alive over time you won't have the diversity of life you would have if you used all Live rock. The life that will spread to the lace rock is limited to the life that survives and spreads from your nice expensive LR to the lace rock.

ps my name is Chuck too.

[NoSump]

Thanks guys, that was very helpful information.

Frankly, my live rock isn't very "live". It's attractively encrusted and shaped but devoid of any dicernable life (other than a sponge mass, which technically isn't "alive").

The posts that I have read regarding the interesting variety of life found on live rock has prompted a case of "rock envy". I assume that after 5 weeks of darkness and two weeks of light, if there were living creatures they would have made their presence known at this point.

I'll probably try to add a few pieces of very raw live rock to punch up my tank. One last question, how long does it take for the lace rock to become encrusted with coraline algae?

Ninong, in terms of European aquarists costs for live rock - I lived in Europe for a number of years and unfortunately still have to travel there from time to time on business. They pay too much for everything. So much for the "European Community".

[Ninong]

Frankly, my live rock isn't very "live". It's attractively encrusted and shaped but devoid of any dicernable life (other than a sponge mass, which technically isn't "alive").

The posts that I have read regarding the interesting variety of life found on live rock has prompted a case of "rock envy". I assume that after 5 weeks of darkness and two weeks of light, if there were living creatures they would have made their presence known at this point.

"Live rock" is more a reference to what's inside the rock than what's on the outside. "Raw" live rock would have the most life but it would also be the dirtiest and it will experience the most dieoff during curing. "Pre-cured" live rock (which really isn't, but that's a long story) would have more life than most fully cured live rock. "Fully cured" live rock may or may not have as much "life on the outside" as live rock that is not yet fully cured. A lot depends on how they cured it. If you want colorful live rock, just order regular live rock -- which is what is called "pre-cured." That just means they stack it outdoors on racks and spray it with seawater for a couple of weeks before shipping it to the U.S.

You won't know how much life there really is (or isn't) on your live rock unless you get out a red flashlight and check it out about two or three hours after all of the lights have gone off in your tank and in the room. You might be surprised.

I'll probably try to add a few pieces of very raw live rock to punch up my tank. One last question, how long does it take for the lace rock to become encrusted with coraline algae?

That depends on a number of factors that have nothing to do with the rock itself. Assuming you already have some coralline algae somewhere in your tank, it should begin to colonize any available hard surface within 90 days provided your calcium and alkalinity levels are appropriately maintained. "Encrusted with coralline algae" might take longer, say 8 months or so.

Ninong, in terms of European aquarists costs for live rock - I lived in Europe for a number of years and unfortunately still have to travel there from time to time on business. They pay too much for everything. So much for the "European Community".

They actually pay a lot less than we do for equipment that is made over there: German equipment, for example. The Giesemann light fixtures cost only half as much in Germany as they do over here. Schuran equipment is much cheaper over there than it is over here, and so on. On the other hand, true live sand is virtually unobtainable at any price and live rock costs at least double what it costs over here. In fact, I have seen some prices for live rock that were triple what the same rock would cost here. And I don't think you can legally buy any butterflyfish in German. I'm pretty sure all species are verboten.

If you want to see some really crazy prices, just check out some of the Japanese online vendors. I can't figure out why their prices should be so high considering that a lot of the equipment is manufactured over there now and they are closer than we are to the source of the livestock. Maybe it's just their reputation for being willing to pay big bucks (sorry, yen) for rare stuff (livestock). People willing to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars (sometimes more than a million dollars) for a single koi might be willing be pay top dollar (yes) for certain fish and corals.

[NoSump]

Ninong:

Danke. As I began in this hobby, I was surprised by the quantity of aquarium equipment manufactured in Europe. When I found out that most of the Rena brand products were made in France, I was tempted to return all of it!

Thanks for the helpful information on live rock. One of the most beutiful reefs in the world is off the coast of Belize. I'm surprised that there is never any Belize Rock for sale. Given the economic conditions in Belize (formerly British Honduras) I'm sure that the government would not object to "harvasting" their natural resouce.

[Ninong]

Perhaps it is illegal to harvest live rock from the Mesoamerican Reef? The U.S. made it illegal to harvest live rock in U.S. waters several years ago and I know that Mexico, Belize and Honduras have joined together to formulate various laws protecting their reefs.

[Key Of David]

I have a very nice piece of lace in my 55 gallon that I wouldn't trade for the world. Lace rock looks great....don't know about its porosity but all the invertibrates/pods/algae love it too. Only thing about it is its heavy. Have you ever thought of using base rock? Its not as lively but you still get some survival on it and its just as cheap as any lace rock.