Calfo's book discussion.

[Samper]

As I read "The book of Coral Propagation" by Anthony Calfo I'm amazed at the knowledge he has packed into this book. While being new to the hobby I still understand many of his concepts. At the same time many of them I don't and of course questions arise. I'm sure I'll have many of questions and I hope you guys don't mind helping me out or atleast pointing me in the right direction as I go through the book.

I do plan to meet him in SC in February and hopefully sit down for a chat.

My first question comes from page 39 if you don't mind
The title of the Chapter is A good use for Aiptasia Anemones.

On the page he discusses the use of aiptasia as a filter or scrubber inbetween the display and a sump or whatever else you wanna put on the system. I understand why it would be a good idea but my question is.....What keeps these pests from spreading to other parts of the system say the sump, refugium or even the display over time?

Also do any of you know of anyone who is using the method of training butterflyfish to eat them as described in the bottom paragraph? I see so many people with this problem but have never seen mention of the "trained" butterflyfish species". The only comment I've ever seen was "it's a hit and miss thing". Seems like an easy enough and profitable practice.

[Reefland]

Samper,

I think the only thing that keeps them from reaching the display is the inability to get there to begin with; I don't think they release babies that float in the column and grow where they land.

As far as using Butterflyfish to keep them in check, Copperband Butterflys are used by hobbyist very often and I think they are more hit than miss. The problem with Butterflys as you probably know is getting them to eat food in captivity. Some will accept mysis shrimp but mostly, they go after live food; Aiptasia, sand bed fauna and small feather dusters.

[Samper]

Samper,

I think the only thing that keeps them from reaching the display is the inability to get there to begin with; I don't think they release babies that float in the column and grow where they land..

I guess I need to study their reproduction then cause they were everywhere in the systems I've seen with problems, I don't understand why if they can spread everywhere in a display why they couldn't spread throughout the entire system.

As far as using Butterflyfish to keep them in check, Copperband Butterflys are used by hobbyist very often and I think they are more hit than miss. The problem with Butterflys as you probably know is getting them to eat food in captivity. Some will accept mysis shrimp but mostly, they go after live food; Aiptasia, sand bed fauna and small feather dusters.

This is why I can't understand the fact that aiptasia is such a problem and that there aren't more people "training" them on a large scale. He mentions in the book that some people train them in an aiptasia dominated tank and then sell them specifically as aiptasia eaters but I've never seen it. Seems like something that could be profitable for someone who raises fish and corals for a profit.

[Ninong]

I guess I need to study their reproduction then cause they were everywhere in the systems I've seen with problems, I don't understand why if they can spread everywhere in a display why they couldn't spread throughout the entire system.

They spread the same way the uber strain of Caulerpa taxifolia spreads: Any tiny piece of the anemone has the potential to grow into a new anemone.

This is why I can't understand the fact that aiptasia is such a problem and that there aren't more people "training" them on a large scale. He mentions in the book that some people train them in an aiptasia dominated tank and then sell them specifically as aiptasia eaters but I've never seen it. Seems like something that could be profitable for someone who raises fish and corals for a profit.

I haven't heard about people "training" Chelmon rostratus to eat Aiptasia anemones before but I do know that everything I have read about them says that it can sometimes take a few weeks for them to recognize that the Aiptasia represent food. Probably because they are not one of their natural foods found in their habitat? Of course, all of that assumes that you will be successful in getting your new C. rostratus to feed at all. That, in itself, can take time. According to Dieter Brockmann, virtually all C. rostratus will eventually eat Aiptasia. He has also had experiences with them eating other more desirable invertebrates but those instances are, thankfully, relatively rare.

[Samper]

They spread the same way the uber strain of Caulerpa taxifolia spreads: Any tiny piece of the anemone has the potential to grow into a new anemone.

Do you know how they would be kept quarantined to their chamber only?

I haven't heard about people "training" Chelmon rostratus to eat Aiptasia anemones before but I do know that everything I have read about them says that it can sometimes take a few weeks for them to recognize that the Aiptasia represent food.

Do you not have the book? I was hoping you did.

[scubadude]

Hey Chuck,
I kind of figured you would perk up about the aiptasia scrubbers....I did the exact same thing....I was like WTF your kidding right? I have seen this application being used, wether it was on purpose or not remains to be questioned but there was a very large outdoor system @ Waikiki Aquarium in honululu hawaii that had a small boxed section that was loaded with aiptasias, this was apparently where the nutrients where at the highest and the aiptasias werent harvested that I know of. I wish I would of asked Mr. Delbeek about this when I was there talking to him (I may have but forgot by now) I think I have a picture of it too somewhere. I will try and dig it up for you.

As far as CBB's (copper banded butterflys) I have used them in the greenhouse and they where a great asset, much more effecient IMO than the peppermint shrimps but dont disclude peps either as aiptasia control. You really shouldnt plan on each system having a CBB in it you should wait to see which systems need controlling and then approach the problem....thats my theory anyway. Also others such as Joy from HA (Harbor Aquatics) uses Racoon Butterflies with great success and I wouldnt hesitate to get a Racoon instead of a CBB if I needed it and it was all that was available.

Another type of scrubber for filtration is Xenia which Mr. Calfo does describe in the book as well....read on bro. I really think alot of your questions may be answered just by reading on

[Samper]

Alright man,

I've been scrambling to get down to the CMAC meeting in SC.
I'm definately planning on the Saturday store visits and lunch with MR. Calfo but am having to work my magic to get into the frag workshop. If any of you know anyone up there and could somehow encourage them to let me in I'd be very grateful cause it's full, when they read my post on the website I should be #2 on the waiting list.

And the reading continues...........thanks Rocky

[Ninong]

Another type of scrubber for filtration is Xenia which Mr. Calfo does describe in the book as well....read on bro. I really think alot of your questions may be answered just by reading on

And still another new exotic filtration system is Steve Tyree's method that uses living sponges and sea squirts (tunicates): http://www.dynamicecomorphology.com/ (Click on Environmental Gradient.)

[scubadude]

Alright man,

......am having to work my magic to get into the frag workshop. ........

And the reading continues...........thanks Rocky

Chuck,
I dont see the advantage of them NOT letting you into the frag workshop. The only reason would be that they just dont have the room for any more people which I guess could happen if they are doing this @ a members house and giving the members first dibs at the frag workshop for space constraints. I would think that they would have a convention hall of some sort though for doing this? Oh and by all means please post your thoughts about your readings but in the same aspect try and keep most of the secrets in Anthony's book left in the book. Anthony charges a very modest fee for his book and I dont want to see a bunch of threads that describe everything thats in the book. Im by no means accusing you of this just wanted to give you a heads up.....I know how excited one can get just by reading his book

Ninong,
This picture is yours from Waikiki aquarium



Do you remember seeing a small section right there around the umbrella that had a bunch of Aiptasia in it....I want to say it was like a drain or overflow for this large system

[scubadude]

And still another new exotic filtration system is Steve Tyree's method that uses living sponges and sea squirts (tunicates): http://www.dynamicecomorphology.com/ (Click on Environmental Gradient.)

One of the next books on my list to add to my library ;)

[Ninong]

Ninong,
This picture is yours from Waikiki aquarium

http://www.reefland.com/forum/attach...tachmentid=241

Do you remember seeing a small section right there around the umbrella that had a bunch of Aiptasia in it....I want to say it was like a drain or overflow for this large system

Rocky,

I don't remember seeing the Aiptasia that you are talking about but I do remember seeing that outdoor display and I am very familiar with it's workings. Perhaps the Aiptasia is just some little ad-on feature that I overlooked?