Sick Maroon Clown

DKJONES · 02-09-2005, 06:41 PM

Hello everyone. I am new to this hobby and have been starting small and reading as much as I can. I have a 24 gallon nano cube for about 3 months. I have had my share of beginners problems (impatience being the primary one). Currently things are doing well except for a terribly sick maroon clown. He has a whitiesh haze all over his body including his eyes. His fins are clamped and beginning to rot away. He has had these symptoms for about 5 days and hasn't eaten in awhile. He still plays in his anemone but is in definite distress. I also have a pink-spotted shrimp goby that is not affected in the least. He is perfectly normal. I did lose a few other fish to this same affliction last week. The clown was the only one that lasted (other than the unaffected goby). I know my tank was initially overcrowded. (I couldn't keep my husband from buying more fish!) Since the wipeout, he has realized I wasn't kidding about going slow! The tank also has a number of snails and small hermits, a clam, a flower-pot coral, some mushroom polyps, and some star polyps. These are all doing well. I have tried treating with Kick Ick. It seems to keep things from getting worse, put nothing is getting better. The salinity is 1.025, the pH is 8.3, the temp is 80, the nitrite, nitate, and ammonia are all zero. I have been religious about adding calcium, iodine, and othe reef supplements. I use kalkwasser mix to replinish evaporation and change at least 10% of the water every week. I have a SeaClone 100 skimmer, and use the biological filter built into the back of the tank. I also have an extra pump to increase circulation. My live roack is covered with purple coraline algae and also some caulerpa has strated to grow from pieces I have fed my fish. I also have a feather duster and my rocks have lots of tiny fanworms in them that are thriving. There is a purple starfish as well. The lights are a dual white and blue compact flourescent totalling 96 watts.

Does anyone have any idea how to save my poor clown? If he is doomed, is there a humane way to euthanize him? Any help would be appreciated!

Samper · 02-09-2005, 08:17 PM

DKJONES, welcome to reefland!!!

You're right where you need to be.

The first thing I can tell you is that while you might be experiencing ich, ich doesn't cause the white haze you described. Most of the miracle medications do more harm than good and it's best to shy away from them. Usually poor water conditions cause problems like this to show up. I'm not for sure what you might have since I've never experienced it but I do know someone will pipe up with some added help. Are there cotton like growths on the fish also or is it a smooth film.

You mentioned that your nitrates are at 0 and I'm just curious how you have accomplished this. My nano has been set up for almost a year and I constantly battle to keep them low.
You mentioned you are using supplements
Are you using a balanced additive for Ca and dKH?
I asked about iodine before here so I can't say much other than it isn't needed. Most of the food we feed is enough to keep iodine levels where they need to be and unless you're testing for it how do you know you need it?
What other supplements are you adding?

You mentioned you are keeping a clam and some other inverts including what I am assuming is a goniopora. The clam is going to require a metal halide to continue to survive. The small ones rely more on food than light but both are equally important in the long run. While some experienced reefers can keep the gonioporas, in a nano you can't possibly feed it enough without polluting your water or removing it to a bowl or something for feeding.

Your salinity, ph and temp are good and if your ammonia, nitrites and nitrates are all 0 then your water sounds perfect but not to call you out or anything...I doubt your levels are all at 0. What are you using to test those params?

DKJONES · 02-09-2005, 08:58 PM

You'r probably correct about the nitrates. I did have them down to 0 a time or two, but haven't checked in the last day or two. I will test them tonite when I get home. The test kit I use contains tests for pH, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia. I can't recall the brand but will check when I get home. The names of some of the supplements are too long to remember, but I will write them all down. I know one is magnesium and something that starts with an "s" - strontium or something like that. They are mostly Kent products. There is Coral Vital and Reef Essentials. There is aslo a calcium additive and a pH buffer I use as needed. I also have some invertabrate foods that I add a few drops every few days. Maybe I'm overdoing it a little!
I don't know the exact species of clam, but it is one of the giant clam varieties. It is blue, purple, and green with metallic gold stripes - really beautiful! It seems to be doing fine. I have it close to the top and it is sending out little tiny strings and attaching itself to the rock. I forgot to mention that I also have a small pistol shrimp and that I noticed only 2 days ago tons of microscopic little white "bugs" all over the glass. They seem to have resided, but there are still quite a number of them. There is also a strange crab that came with the live rock. He never comes out, but we can see him in one of the holes. He is a furry brown with red eyes.
My husband and I are fascinated by this tank! Everyday we see something new. We hope to get a much larger tank once we can get the hang of this one. Right now I just want to save my poor little clown! Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samper

DKJONES, welcome to reefland!!!

You're right where you need to be.

The first thing I can tell you is that while you might be experiencing ich, ich doesn't cause the white haze you described. Most of the miracle medications do more harm than good and it's best to shy away from them. Usually poor water conditions cause problems like this to show up. I'm not for sure what you might have since I've never experienced it but I do know someone will pipe up with some added help. Are there cotton like growths on the fish also or is it a smooth film.

You mentioned that your nitrates are at 0 and I'm just curious how you have accomplished this. My nano has been set up for almost a year and I constantly battle to keep them low.
You mentioned you are using supplements
Are you using a balanced additive for Ca and dKH?
I asked about iodine before here so I can't say much other than it isn't needed. Most of the food we feed is enough to keep iodine levels where they need to be and unless you're testing for it how do you know you need it?
What other supplements are you adding?

You mentioned you are keeping a clam and some other inverts including what I am assuming is a goniopora. The clam is going to require a metal halide to continue to survive. The small ones rely more on food than light but both are equally important in the long run. While some experienced reefers can keep the gonioporas, in a nano you can't possibly feed it enough without polluting your water or removing it to a bowl or something for feeding.

Your salinity, ph and temp are good and if your ammonia, nitrites and nitrates are all 0 then your water sounds perfect but not to call you out or anything...I doubt your levels are all at 0. What are you using to test those params?

**Ninong** · 02-09-2005, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKJONES

Hello everyone.

Hello, DKJONES! Welcome to Reefland!

Quote:

Currently things are doing well except for a terribly sick maroon clown. He has a whitiesh haze all over his body including his eyes.

That's not ich. It's sounds like Brooklynella hostilis except for the fact that you say he has had these symptoms for five days now. If it's Brooklynella, then I'm surprised that he has lasted this long.

Take a look at the picture of the Maroon Clownfish on this page and see if yours looks like that: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/brooklynellosisart.htm

Another possibility would be Amyloodinium ocellatum but it sounds more like Brook. If it is Brook, chances are not good for his recovery at this stage. The only treatment is formalin baths but it's probably a bit late for that to help.

Quote:

His fins are clamped and beginning to rot away. He has had these symptoms for about 5 days and hasn't eaten in awhile. He still plays in his anemone but is in definite distress.

Does anyone have any idea how to save my poor clown? If he is doomed, is there a humane way to euthanize him?

I have never euthanized a fish before but I have heard of others doing it by placing the fish in a small container (tupperware or similar) and then placing it in the freezer. The fish's metabolism will gradually shut down as the water's temperature drops. Whether that is more humane than the cleaver method is up to you.

Quote:

I have been religious about adding calcium, iodine, and othe reef supplements. I use kalkwasser mix to replinish evaporation...

If you are dripping limewater (Kalkwasser), then you probably don't need any of the other additives. Do not add iodine unless you have tested for it and found that your iodine levels are below 0.06 ppm (NSW levels). Since iodine is in all of the foods we feed, it is usually not necessary to add iodine. Excess iodine is highly toxic.

***zhenya*** · 02-10-2005, 04:56 PM

If I may also add, keep an eye on that brown furry crab that you described having red eyes. Crabs can be very distructive in a reef tank and I would go as far as say to try and remove it. If you can take that piece of rock(where you saw your crab hiding) out of the tank, you can put some carbonated water in the hole and this crab should bail out. You can than place it in the separate container untill you can identify it. Some crabs can grow pretty large and can kill and eat just about anything in the aquarium.

DKJONES · 02-14-2005, 04:39 PM

Yes it looked just like the "clown fish disease". Sadly the clown did die. He was suffering, so it was for the best. Now his anemone is shrinking and wandering around the tank. It had never moved before. How long until I can try to add another clown?

**Ninong** · 02-14-2005, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKJONES

How long until I can try to add another clown?

I don't think you should add any new fish at all for at least 30 days.

Suggested reading: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/hcs3/index.htm

What species of anemone do you have? It is important that you feed the anemone at least once or twice a week, especially since your total lighting is only 96 watts. Do not feed it more often than every other day. If we know which species you have, we can suggest appropriate food items.

DKJONES · 02-14-2005, 06:15 PM

It is a rose bubble tip anemone. Please let me know what I should feed it. The clown used to feed it bits of food I would give him....like squid, brine shrimp, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninong

I don't think you should add any new fish at all for at least 30 days.

Suggested reading: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/hcs3/index.htm

What species of anemone do you have? It is important that you feed the anemone at least once or twice a week, especially since your total lighting is only 96 watts. Do not feed it more often than every other day. If we know which species you have, we can suggest appropriate food items.

**Ninong** · 02-14-2005, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKJONES

It is a rose bubble tip anemone. Please let me know what I should feed it. The clown used to feed it bits of food I would give him....like squid, brine shrimp, etc.

They will eat almost anything: Supermarket shrimp, fish (saltwater), squid, clam, brine shrimp, krill, scallops, crab, silversides and lancefish. Just make sure the pieces are sized appropriately for the size of the anemone.

Zhenya is our resident BTA guru, so I'll ask him to give you some tips. His BTA did so well it ended up eating his tank.

This is a picture of it just before it ate his 110-gal tank:

P.S. -- As you can see, yours could quickly outgrow your present 24-gal tank.

DKJONES · 02-14-2005, 07:08 PM

Wow! Those are huge! Mine has shriveled up next to nothing. It was starting to divide, but since the clown died, it wandered around the tank awhile and then I found it upside down on the sand this morning. I placed it near the spot he was before the clown died and am hoping it will be better when I get home tonite. I will try feeding it and see if that helps. Maybe it is just depressed! That clown never left it alone for a second!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninong

They will eat almost anything: Supermarket shrimp, fish (saltwater), squid, clam, brine shrimp, krill, scallops, crab, silversides and lancefish. Just make sure the pieces are sized appropriately for the size of the anemone.

Zhenya is our resident BTA guru, so I'll ask him to give you some tips. His BTA did so well it ended up eating his tank.

This is a picture of it just before it ate his 110-gal tank:

P.S. -- As you can see, yours could quickly outgrow your present 24-gal tank.

02-09-2005, 06:41 PM	#1
DKJONES Just Moved In Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 21	Sick Maroon Clown Hello everyone. I am new to this hobby and have been starting small and reading as much as I can. I have a 24 gallon nano cube for about 3 months. I have had my share of beginners problems (impatience being the primary one). Currently things are doing well except for a terribly sick maroon clown. He has a whitiesh haze all over his body including his eyes. His fins are clamped and beginning to rot away. He has had these symptoms for about 5 days and hasn't eaten in awhile. He still plays in his anemone but is in definite distress. I also have a pink-spotted shrimp goby that is not affected in the least. He is perfectly normal. I did lose a few other fish to this same affliction last week. The clown was the only one that lasted (other than the unaffected goby). I know my tank was initially overcrowded. (I couldn't keep my husband from buying more fish!) Since the wipeout, he has realized I wasn't kidding about going slow! The tank also has a number of snails and small hermits, a clam, a flower-pot coral, some mushroom polyps, and some star polyps. These are all doing well. I have tried treating with Kick Ick. It seems to keep things from getting worse, put nothing is getting better. The salinity is 1.025, the pH is 8.3, the temp is 80, the nitrite, nitate, and ammonia are all zero. I have been religious about adding calcium, iodine, and othe reef supplements. I use kalkwasser mix to replinish evaporation and change at least 10% of the water every week. I have a SeaClone 100 skimmer, and use the biological filter built into the back of the tank. I also have an extra pump to increase circulation. My live roack is covered with purple coraline algae and also some caulerpa has strated to grow from pieces I have fed my fish. I also have a feather duster and my rocks have lots of tiny fanworms in them that are thriving. There is a purple starfish as well. The lights are a dual white and blue compact flourescent totalling 96 watts. Does anyone have any idea how to save my poor clown? If he is doomed, is there a humane way to euthanize him? Any help would be appreciated!

02-09-2005, 08:17 PM	#2
Samper Contributing Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 3,735	DKJONES, welcome to reefland!!! You're right where you need to be. The first thing I can tell you is that while you might be experiencing ich, ich doesn't cause the white haze you described. Most of the miracle medications do more harm than good and it's best to shy away from them. Usually poor water conditions cause problems like this to show up. I'm not for sure what you might have since I've never experienced it but I do know someone will pipe up with some added help. Are there cotton like growths on the fish also or is it a smooth film. You mentioned that your nitrates are at 0 and I'm just curious how you have accomplished this. My nano has been set up for almost a year and I constantly battle to keep them low. You mentioned you are using supplements Are you using a balanced additive for Ca and dKH? I asked about iodine before here so I can't say much other than it isn't needed. Most of the food we feed is enough to keep iodine levels where they need to be and unless you're testing for it how do you know you need it? What other supplements are you adding? You mentioned you are keeping a clam and some other inverts including what I am assuming is a goniopora. The clam is going to require a metal halide to continue to survive. The small ones rely more on food than light but both are equally important in the long run. While some experienced reefers can keep the gonioporas, in a nano you can't possibly feed it enough without polluting your water or removing it to a bowl or something for feeding. Your salinity, ph and temp are good and if your ammonia, nitrites and nitrates are all 0 then your water sounds perfect but not to call you out or anything...I doubt your levels are all at 0. What are you using to test those params? __________________ Keep your heart pure conceive your own dreams Respect your fellow man the earth and the trees.

02-10-2005, 04:56 PM	#5
*zhenya* Owner Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: new jersey,usa Posts: 7,621	If I may also add, keep an eye on that brown furry crab that you described having red eyes. Crabs can be very distructive in a reef tank and I would go as far as say to try and remove it. If you can take that piece of rock(where you saw your crab hiding) out of the tank, you can put some carbonated water in the hole and this crab should bail out. You can than place it in the separate container untill you can identify it. Some crabs can grow pretty large and can kill and eat just about anything in the aquarium. __________________ Kind regards, Gene.

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02-14-2005, 04:39 PM	#6
DKJONES Just Moved In Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 21	Yes it looked just like the "clown fish disease". Sadly the clown did die. He was suffering, so it was for the best. Now his anemone is shrinking and wandering around the tank. It had never moved before. How long until I can try to add another clown?

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