[Peterock]

Hello out there I am starting this post because i have been looking all over for information to the new beginners of the hobby. I know that there is a ton of great and positive information out there but to sit for 6 + hours to read all the post is crazy when you have a tank that needs all that time. Again I have a ton of question that i have and other newbees as-well.

1) How long after putting water in the tank do you have to wait to put live rock in? Cured or Uncured?
2) At what point is it time for starter fish Damsels and etc..?
3) Best choice of Live rock for new-people? Does it make a difference?
4) What are the simplist corals to use?

[Reefland]

Hi Peterock, Welcome to Reefland!

What good would these forums be if we couldn't ask questions, right?

1. For liverock and livesand, the only time you need to wait after putting water in a new tank is as long as it takes for you to get the salinity and temperature correct and stable. After that, the sooner you get the rock in the better..the sooner your cycle will begin.

2. There isn't a such thing as a starter fish; no fish should be used to help cycle a tank. In your case since your mentioning introducing liverock immediately, whether cured or uncured, this is all you need to cycle your aquarium. The cycle is just providing waste in some form that will kick start the bacteria population. Your liverock, again whether cured or uncured, already is colonized with bacteria.

3. Wow there are lots of different types of rock available. To me it's finding good colorful rock with shapes that I like...for a reasonable price.

4. Probably some common zooanthids, corallimorphs and star polyps.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Peterock

Hello out there

Hello, Peterock, and welcome to Reefland!

I know that there is a ton of great and positive information out there but to sit for 6 + hours to read all the post is crazy when you have a tank that needs all that time.

That's not the way it works in this hobby. He who starts doing things before he knows what he's doing will be VERY sorry, VERY soon.

1) How long after putting water in the tank do you have to wait to put live rock in? Cured or Uncured?

You might want to wait long enough to make sure that the plumbing system is working properly and that there are no leaks but assuming you had already run a freshwater plumbing check before draining the tank and filling it with saltwater, then you can begin to put your sand bed (if any) and live rock in immediately -- cured or uncured, makes no difference. Uncured live rock will take longer to complete the initial cycle than fully cured live rock but that's about it.

Obviously it goes without saying that you can't put anything in the tank until the water temperature is appropriate and you have checked the salinity. You can assume that the pH, calcium and alkalinity will be within reasonable parameters as long as you are using a good brand of salt mix. You can only assume this if all you are putting in the tank is the substrate (sand bed) and the live rock. You will need to test the pH, calcium and alkalinity before you start adding livestock of any kind.

2) At what point is it time for starter fish Damsels and etc..?

Never! That's the short answer. There is no need to use "starter fish" for any reason that I can think of. If you would like to have damsels (lucky you ), then you can safely add them after your tank has finished the initial cycle. That could take six or seven days or it could take six or seven weeks.

Damsels are not necessary to cycle a new tank. The live rock will cycle the tank quite well without subjecting any fish to the cruel environment of a new tank that is still cycling.

3) Best choice of Live rock for new-people? Does it make a difference?

The type of live rock is strictly a matter of personal preference. I happen to really like Kaelini and Tonga branch. If you are asking about whether it is better for a new aquarist to start with fully cured live rock or just regular live rock, then that's another matter of personal preference. You can go either way. I found it easier in my situation to start with fully cured live rock.

4) What are the simplist corals to use?

The easiest corals for beginners would be soft corals. Don't buy anything unless you think it is something you like and will want to keep.

[Samper]

Reefland covered you on your specific questions but I'll add a little

Take everything very slowly........research anything you even think you might wanna buy first. NO IMPULSE BUYING unless you know you know what you're doing.

Ask lots of questions....I have and still do and imo this is the best forum online. There are others with more information but then again you get a lot more oppinions from some folks that shouldn't be giving them. I owe my beautiful piece of the reef that I keep today to the folks here. Very friendly atmosphere so stick around. You've come to the right place.

[Peterock]

Thanks to all I have found that this site is great expecially since you can have a log that is great for people like me!! Again I am the person that does ask a lot of questions and do some reading and homework before I jump into something. This tank that i have is a family project so we want it to be a great family experience. But like i said I have more questions


1) How many pounds of rock is the bare minium for a 45gal tank? I was told that 30-45lbs is good but wouldn't that take up most of the room?

2) Is there a good better and best type of salt mix? I have decided to buy some pre-mixed saltwater to make it easier on my first setup.

3) So depending on the time frame for the tank to cycle, that will tell me when to add inverterbrates, and coral?

4) Any other tips that will be helpful??????????????????????

[MarinePig]

1.The info I have found is at least 1lb per gallon and I have read up to 2 lbs per gallon. But you don't have to get to that all at once. I am adding the live rock as I can afford it. Checking my local places, getting the pick of the lot, curing it in a seperate bucket BEFORE putting it in my main tank to avoid an ammonia spike. I have a 72 gallon bow front but only have about 50 lbs of rock (hey, not all of us here are millionairs, ). But going to get at least 72 but more likely about 100 lbs.

2. Look into a RO filter early. I made the bad mistake of mixing the salt with tap water and it was almost a complete disaster. I would get an RO filter from the get go. Help things off starting with pure water. As far as salt, I haven't heard anything bad about Reef Crystals Reef Salt (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...&N=2004+113009) Look around online, you can find it a lot cheaper online than in a store.

3. I'll leave this to the experts here except I have been told here to wait on the coral until at least 6 months and your tank has aged properly.

4. Ask the experts and learn from other peoples mistakes before you make them too. Recommendations. RO/DI filter (highly recommend), UV sterilizer, protein skimmer, sump (with refugium), and if you plan on coral check out lighting ahead of time. Most of all, go slow!!!!!!!! I've learned that lesson the hard way a couple of times. Good luck.

[Samper]

Originally Posted by Peterock

1) How many pounds of rock is the bare minium for a 45gal tank? I was told that 30-45lbs is good but wouldn't that take up most of the room?

I'm a huge fan of LR and at one time had so much in my system that a few people commented that they didn't care for the look of it. I really don't know that the pounds per gallon could ever be judged accurate. Some rock is very light and the porosity varies as does the shape. Some rock seems to have tons more life on it than others etc. When I set up my larger system I'm going to order rock from a few different places and if I can have it shipped in water then I will. It will be ordered in 50lb lots and will go in the display under the lighting I plan to keep it under immediately. I'm hoping that doing it this way I can minimize die off and hopefully get a good jumpstart on some interesting life. It'll stink though. Make sure you have a very good skimmer if you plan to cure it yourself.

Originally Posted by Peterock

2) Is there a good better and best type of salt mix? I have decided to buy some pre-mixed saltwater to make it easier on my first setup.

I use Instant Ocean but it clearly isn't the best choice although many many successful aquarists use it. Read this article.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...04/feature.htm

Originally Posted by Peterock

3) So depending on the time frame for the tank to cycle, that will tell me when to add inverterbrates, and coral?.

Your goal is to hit 0's across the board for Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates. Some people wait even more time after the numbers hit 0 to add anything and I'll be one of them when I upgrade systems. The main thing is that when you do decide to add life, have a list that you have researched and put it together slowly. Doing it slowly gives your system time to catch up to the added bioload.

Originally Posted by Peterock

4) Any other tips that will be helpful??????????????????????

Stick around!

[Poseidon]

Looks like the others have it pretty well covered! BE PATIENT!!! THis hobby is not an "overnighter" for sure! It takes time, and we all made mistakes, you just have the benefit of learning from ours, and not having to make the same ones. Like "starter fish"... If you want damsels great, but don't "rent" them... They are a MAJOR PITA!!!

[Brian35]

hang in there and take it slow

[Elmo18]

A lot of awesome information up above.

I just wanted to add that during the waiting time for the tank to mature (after the rock has cycled, water parameters in check, etc), it will give you a chance to familiarize yourself with testing your tank waters.

This includes calcium kits, alkalinity kits, and other kits. I guess I don't like reading directions each time I test my water. Patience will give you practice, and practice well makes perfect

- Elmo

[Peterock]

Hello again I have finally gotten my tank and i will be setting it up tomorrow, did a water test on my tap water and my ph-7.8, nitrite-0,amonia-0 my question is i also picked up 17.50 lbs of Fuji live rock and 20lbs of live sand my question is after i mix my salt and water do i put the live rock in first or the live sand i heard I can go either way but i want to make sure i get the best.

[Reefland]

Yeah you can go either way. I would put the sand in and then the rock personally.

[Peterock]

Hello again all

I finally got the tank up and running for 4 days now and I did pretty well i think i ended up with 41.5lbs of live rock 38 of it is fiji and the rest is florida because if the colors and mini featherduster to help filter the water. I am starting to see worms and little critters crawling in the tank. I also added this new product from marineland called (BIO-SPIRA) this stuff is suppose to cycle the tank in 24hrs. So I added enough to fit a 70gal tank to give it that extra kick in the shorts. I put my first major purchase in last night a 4.5 inch hawaii featherduster he is pretty cool i am happy.

[Reefland]

Hi Peterock,

Good deal! I would warn however that you should really take it slow with any additions to make sure your not going to experience any type of nitrogen cycle. Regardless of the product you add (which is really worthless I think) your tank is less than 1 week old, you should let it run for a couple of weeks performing tests routinely to make sure it is suitable for any additional life.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Peterock

I also added this new product from marineland called (BIO-SPIRA) this stuff is suppose to cycle the tank in 24hrs. So I added enough to fit a 70gal tank to give it that extra kick in the shorts.

That bacteria-in-a-pouch product will not stop your live rock from experiencing a certain amount of dieoff. As organisms in your live rock die, they produce nitrogen (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate). How much dieoff you experience depends on whether all of your live rock was already fully cured and on how long it was out of water before you stuck it in your aquarium.

Obviously your live rock will cycle your tank with or without the addition of bought and paid for bacteria but the bacteria you purchased will speed things up just a little bit. Perhaps a product like that might be something to consider in starting up a saltwater aquarium with nothing but artificial decorations?

Your initial cycle is not finished until all of the dieoff on and inside your live rock has finished and the bacterial populations in your system have stabilized. This initial cycle can take anywhere from several days to several weeks. After the initial cycle, your tank continues to experience cycles of one sort or another as it matures. You might say that it is reasonably mature after six months but it would be more accurate to say that it's not mature for at least 12-18 months.

Incidentally, all of the bacteria in that little pouch would end up in your tank eventually whether you paid for them or not and even if you started out with no live rock at all. All you need to do to get them going is to provide a source of nitrogen.

[Peterock]

Thanks for the advise everyone, I am taking it slow and the reason why i put that liquid bacteria in is because i bought 5lbs of Flordia live rock and found a lot of featherduster or christmas tree things on the rock and wanted them to stay alive. Will a new tank with the test as follow kill the feather duster and other things growing....

ph-7.9
alk- normal
ammonia-.037
nitrate-10 ppm (low range)
nitrite-.5 ppm

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Peterock

Thanks for the advise everyone, I am taking it slow and the reason why i put that liquid bacteria in is because i bought 5lbs of Flordia live rock and found a lot of featherduster or christmas tree things on the rock and wanted them to stay alive. Will a new tank with the test as follow kill the feather duster and other things growing....

ph-7.9
alk- normal
ammonia-.037
nitrate-10 ppm (low range)
nitrite-.5 ppm

What test kit are you using for ammonia that gives you a reading of .037 ???

I think your ammonia numbers are inaccurate unless you are using a very expensive ammonia test kit that has a very sensitive low range.

Your pH is just a little on the low side but it won't hurt anything. Your nitrate is fine at 10 ppm. Nitrite of 0.5 ppm is a bit too high but certainly acceptable for a newly set up system. It shouldn't kill what you have right now but you shouldn't add any more livestock until this number falls to 0.1 ppm or less.

[apantale]

That's why I love this site.. Great feedback and a good learning ground for all experience levels. The only thing I can add is that a Test Kit is your best friend. Learn it, Love it and Breathe It. I just invested in a refractometer, but you dont necessarily need that for now. Just as long as you can accurately measure SG, PH, Nitrite/ate, temperature, and the all unforgotten phosphates (which, btw can accidentally be overlooked if you by chance use tap water by accident...), then you should be good to go.. A big AGREE on all points everyone had mentioned, especially with respect to Live Rock. The old method of starter fish no longer exists, especially with the new formula of synth salts and LR combinations. I have had my bad experiences, but luckily they were not extremely costly mistakes, and why I can say that I agree and have experienced what everyone on this thread has mentioned. I would say you are in good hands.. have fun and happy reefing..