[s1214215]

hi Guys

Of all the things, my carbonate alkalinity has shot up to a high reading on my Red Sea test kit - yeah I know I should have a PPM measured kit and not a colour chart - leason learned - have ordered one in. This has never happened before. It always was in the normal bracket, Ph was 8.3 and Calcium was always 420+.

I just added a refugium with a 7 inch deep (40KG) deep sand bed - with oolitic beach sand sourced here in Thailand. Been running 3 weeks and my noxious green algae problem has gone, but replaced by a little red algae scum - nothing much though. The fuge is crammed full of assorted algaes.

Why would it go up. I just did a half water change to try and bring it down again, but its still high. I am using the same salt as always - Marinarum. My LPS are fine and seem better than ever, most of the softs are fine excpt one finger leather and a large polyped Zoo, which have shrunk up slightly - no SPS.

Will the level drop naturally? Should I be overly concerned? Why would it go high like this. Help I am going away for 4 weeks in 2 days.

[Bristle Worm]

I don't why your alk went high, but I would guess is that you either overdosed, or you had a strong ph swing sometime, or your test kit is dysfucntional.

I would figure out if your test kit is working first before making any changes to the tank.

However if your Alk is really as high as you say, I would do another water change and then dose calcium chloride until your bicarbonate levels are down to normal.

You can read this article that talks all about the Alkalinity and Calcium issues of reef tank and how to fix the problems associated with them.
http://advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

Good luck..

[Samper]

Calcium chloride is used to maintain levels not bring them down or am I reading this all wrong?

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Samper

Calcium chloride is used to maintain levels not bring them down or am I reading this all wrong?

Yes, you're wrong.

The recommendation to dose just calcium chloride is a good one. Calcium chloride raises calcium levels but does nothing for alkalinity levels. By supplementing only calcium, the alkalinity levels will be driven down.

Chances are the problem, assuming there really is one, is not as bad as it seems based on that unreliable test kit. Unless the alkalinity levels start to rise above 20 dKH, I don't think any harm will be done to anything. And if the alkalinity levels were truly above 20 dKH, his calcium levels would be below 300 ppm.

[Bristle Worm]

Originally Posted by Samper

Calcium chloride is used to maintain levels not bring them down or am I reading this all wrong?

Calcium Chloride in the absence of a carbonate supplement will sequester any carbonate in the tank thereby forming Calcium carobonate which will precipitate out into solids or be taken up by corals.

The overall effect will be to reduce the carbonate levels in the tank. I hope this helps. If not check out the link I posted in this thread earlier.

[s1214215]

I thought that too samper re: calcium to regulate DKH. Well I will read the article...

I know I really should have a better test kit... However the Red Sea one has been constant up until now.. I suspect its ok..

So could my new DSB be the root of my problems? I know that different areas of the ocean have varying levels of salinity and DKH, so what about my sand? Could it be the problem.. and what then? Should I change it... that would be annoying as getting oolitic sea originating sand in Thailand is painfully hard.

Still the only things that seem a bit off with the carbonate hardness being high are the finger leather drooping and to a lesser degree the large polyped zoo doesnt open as fully.. The other corals are great, and the fish are fine and a yellow leather looks brighter than ever! Sorry guys but this ones go really got me scratching my head.

I'll have a test kit that reads in ppm as soon as it turns up in the mail.... UNtil then I guess I should try another water change - or am I worrying about nothing if the fish and bulk of corals look great?

[s1214215]

oops.. I forgot to mention that my calcium has dropped from the normal 420+ to 340+ which it has never done before So I am dosing with calcium to bring that up. Will do another water change though if its still high tomorrow by the kit I have now..

[Ninong]

I don't think you have a serious problem. I don't know why your alkalinity seems to have gotten out of balance with your calcium, but I think that things will balance out shortly if you dose just calcium.

I doubt that your new sand has anything to do with this but who knows. Alkalinity in the ocean averages 7 dKH.

Your calcium fell from 420 to 340 ppm as a result of your rising alk. Calcium at 340 ppm would seem to me to indicate that your alkalinity is not high enough right now to cause problems. I would be much more concerned if your calcium fell from 420 to 220 ppm.

P.S. -- I wouldn't bother doing water changes just because of what may be elevated alkalinity until after you test it again with a better test kit and get a reading above 20 dKH. If your alkalinity measures below 20 dKH, I would just continue supplementing calcium alone and retesting both calcium and alkalinity every three or four days to see how things are progressing.

[s1214215]

I don't know why its out of whack either Ninong...


Though reading the article on calcium and carbonate hardness was worth the time.... this is from that article

" If, for example, you add too much of a calcium supplement, you will drive down alkalinity as you get precipitation of calcium carbonate in the tank. Likewise, adding too much of an alkalinity supplement can result in reduction of calcium. Consequently, trying to correct one problem can cause another. Moreover, if you try to correct a calcium or alkalinity “problem” with the wrong type of additive, you might accomplish nothing more than creating limestone in your tank"

Whatever the cause I will try raising my calcium higher with Turbo Calcium and see what the results are. Maybe I freaked a little LOL.. Leaving ones reef for four weeks in the hands of a non-reefer is a little spooky and having this happen two days out from going does not help the nerves

[Samper]

Ok, my mistake.

Thanks for the heads up, I'm mixing up Calcium Chloride with Calcium Hydroxide

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by s1214215

"If, for example, you add too much of a calcium supplement, you will drive down alkalinity..."

The key phrase in that quotation is "too much." You won't cause any problems if you dose just calcium chloride in appropriate amounts and retest your calcium and alkalinity levels every three or four days. Problems arise when some hobbyists try to add too much calcium chloride all at once. All changes should be gradual. The reason you are adding just calcium chloride in the first place is to drive down alkalinity. So that's a good thing (as Martha used to say) in this instance.

I have lost track of how many posts I have read on another board of hobbyists who caused major problems in their tanks by attempting to correct their calcium or alkalinity levels (or low magnesium levels) all at once. All of those things need to be changed gradually over a period of several days or even a few weeks.

[s1214215]

Originally Posted by Ninong

The key phrase in that quotation is "too much." You won't cause any problems if you dose just calcium chloride in appropriate amounts and retest your calcium and alkalinity levels every three or four days. Problems arise when some hobbyists try to add too much calcium chloride all at once. All changes should be gradual.

I totally agree Ninong... I admit to being a little rushed to fix this though. I just tested Calcium after this mornings water change and addition of calcium and its at 400 now. I will add a little more in the morning and retest DKH later that night and see how it fares..

[s1214215]

I boosted my calcium and things are looking better with DKH dropping a little... Will try to get the calcium up to 450 or is higher recommended?

Thanks for the help everyone...

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by s1214215

I boosted my calcium and things are looking better with DKH dropping a little... Will try to get the calcium up to 450 or is higher recommended?

For most people, I think ~450 ppm calcium and ~10 dKH alk is ideal.

I do know of one very advanced aquarist running a very large SPS-dominated tank who has experimented with 12-14 dKH alk and 475-500 ppm Ca but he has since dropped his numbers down a little and now runs 10-12 dKH alk and 450 ppm Ca. It takes a lot of effort to keep the numbers really high if you have very high calcium demand in your tank.

[s1214215]

Originally Posted by Ninong

For most people, I think ~450 ppm calcium and ~10 dKH alk is ideal.

I do know of one very advanced aquarist running a very large SPS-dominated tank who has experimented with 12-14 dKH alk and 475-500 ppm Ca but he has since dropped his numbers down a little and now runs 10-12 dKH alk and 450 ppm Ca. It takes a lot of effort to keep the numbers really high if you have very high calcium demand in your tank.

I just got my new test kit that measures in Dkh. Good news is that the waters at 13Dkh - so its not of the range as the Red Sea kit suggested. On the calcium from - Ooops! I slightly over did the calcium ad I am at 520ppm

I am guessing that this is not that big a deal as my corals seem to be thriving. just added a Dual Satellite 4 65 wats power compact with moon lights and fan - it really rocks.... The seem to be enjoying m ore light than the 2 x 10000K fluoros and 2 x 30wat actinics gave.

Ok thanks again for the help. I 'm lettting the calcium drop back to 450ppm naturally and not worrying about the Dkh now