Marshall Isle

[Samper]

I just picked up 3 nice Marshall Isle pieces that were aquacultured in the ocean. 2 of them are pretty small but I have high hopes for them and the other is what I would call a colony already. I did a RO/DI dip and an iodine dip on the two smaller ones but the larger one has 2 Acorpora crabs living in it and I was scared to dip it. I know it's risky adding anything from the ocean without the proper procedures but I didn't think the crabs could handle the dip and that they might bail out.

What potential problems do I need to be looking out for in the near future? I took a maginfying glass to it and don't see any tegastes, no bleaching or tissue loss and it appears as healthy as can be. I know that from the ocean looks can be deceiving so any info you wanna throw my way will be appreciated.

Also if any of you have the ORA tricolor that I have I'm interested in seeing pics of a larger colony especially macro shots of the branches. It's the purple tip, green polyp with a sort of brown base. if you look at it from the top it has a neon green/blue hue to it. The more mine grows the lighter the branches get in between the tips and the base. I don't think it's bleaching or anything but it is a slight concern since I've never seen what they look like once they get larger.

[Samper]

Here are some pics of the 3 new pieces as well as my small bonsai....sorry about the quality

[Ninong]

I just picked up 3 nice Marshall Isle pieces that were aquacultured in the ocean.

Which "Marshall Isle" pieces were aquacultured in the ocean? Most of the aquacultured SPS that I have seen on the market are coming from Indonesia.

2 of them are pretty small but I have high hopes for them and the other is what I would call a colony already.

At least one of your pieces -- the purple with green polyps Acropora sp. -- appears to be an O.R.A. frag. AFAIF only their clams are aquacultured abroad, all of their frags are aquacultured indoors at their facilities in Florida.

I did a RO/DI dip and an iodine dip on the two smaller ones but the larger one has 2 Acorpora crabs living in it and I was scared to dip it. I know it's risky adding anything from the ocean without the proper procedures but I didn't think the crabs could handle the dip and that they might bail out.

You should NEVER do a freshwater dip on SPS corals. I believe you have a copy of Eric Borneman's Aquarium Corals, right? If so, look at page 389 where he writes: "Most small-polyped corals and xeniids do not tolerate freshwater dips to any degree."

I took a maginfying glass to it and don't see any tegastes...

I have never been able to confirm your identification of the "red bugs" that are fairly common on Acropora pieces lately. Eric Borneman has been doing extensive (in fact, VERY extensive) work in this area and he hasn't come up with a definitive I.D. yet either according to a post of his just a few weeks ago. He has submitted specimens to a couple of world renowned experts in this field and they have engaged in extensive correspondence over the past year or so. IIRC, one of the experts he has consulted has tentatively ID'd them as a tiny amphipod rather than a copepod, which is what most of us assumed them to be.

If you have any links to any information online that pertains to these tiny pests, please post it. I keep waiting for Eric to update us on this but I believe he's still working on it.

Also if any of you have the ORA tricolor that I have I'm interested in seeing pics of a larger colony especially macro shots of the branches. It's the purple tip, green polyp with a sort of brown base. if you look at it from the top it has a neon green/blue hue to it.

Which one is this? Is this the frag in the third picture? If it is, that's what O.R.A. calls a "Marshall Islands frag." It's not the same as what is commonly called a tricolor Acropora.

[Samper]

I got these pieces from Chad at Reef Science. You can see some pic examples of them under his Ultra corals link. They are all supposed to be from the Marshall Islands which I don't know for sure but I liked them so ...... They have great potential from the looks. The 3 pieces that I have shown here are all supposed to be from a supplier in the islands. The two smaller pieces I'm not sure how they were raised but the large one I'm positive was aquacultured in the ocean. It has a 4X8" concrete slab under it which I'm going to break down into a smaller piece when I get the chance. I assume this slab was put under it to hold it vertical in the ocean currents.

I don't normally dip my sps in FW but a shop near me called Aqua Escape in Garner NC always FW dips their corals. I've bought 5 or so ORA pieces from him that were all FW dipped before going into his tank and again before going into my bag. I've had no bad experience with this procedure and just figured I'd dip mine to eliminate any potential problems.

The ORA piece that I mentioned isn't shown in any of these pics. Here is an example of it.

[Ninong]

I got these pieces from Chad at Reef Science. You can see some pic examples of them under his Ultra corals link. They are all supposed to be from the Marshall Islands...

I just checked Chad's Ultra Corals page and nowhere does he say anything about any of his pieces being from the Marshall Islands. He has several aquacultured pieces from Indonesia and he has some O.R.A. aquacultured frags. Perhaps you are confused by the pictures at the top of his page of the O.R.A. frag that O.R.A. calls their "Marshall Island" frag? It's the purple with green polyps Acropora sp. that is identical to the frag pictured in your third picture in your first picture post above.

All of O.R.A.'s frags are aquacultured in their Florida facility. Their aquacultured clams are imported.

Some of Chad's pieces are aquacultured and he identifies those. They're coming from Indonesia. Some of his pieces are wild-collected and those will lack the word "aquacultured" in their captions. Some of his frags are from his own colonies and some are O.R.A. frags.

The 3 pieces that I have shown here are all supposed to be from a supplier in the islands.

I'm sure they are, it's just that you have the wrong islands in mind. They're from Bali, not the Marshall Islands.

I don't normally dip my sps in FW but a shop near me called Aqua Escape in Garner NC always FW dips their corals.

I have heard of people attempting to dip just the rock that the SPS colony is attached to but I have never heard of anybody dipping SPS corals in freshwater. The reason some people dip the rock base is to eliminate any hitchhiking flatworms.

I've bought 5 or so ORA pieces from him that were all FW dipped before going into his tank and again before going into my bag. I've had no bad experience with this procedure and just figured I'd dip mine to eliminate any potential problems.

You might ask the O.R.A. people if they recommend freshwater dips for their SPS frags. I would be shocked if they agree with that idea.

The ORA piece that I mentioned isn't shown in any of these pics. Here is an example of it.

It's hard for me to say what that is from the picture. It might be a tricolor.

[Samper]

Maybe I did misunderstand him but if I was to call him right now and ask him if these pieces were from the marshall islands I'm 100 percent positive he would say yes. Supposedly his supplier from there also supplies his new LR that he's been getting in and has named it after Chads son. I don't know, they're nice and if they are from somewhere different I'd like to know for sure where. Also what species they are cause he didn't know.

As for the FW dips I won't do it again but FWIW I've done it and bought pieces that had been and they are all doing great.

The third pic that you mentioned didn't come from Chad. I got it in SC at that meeting with Calfo. Whatever it is the color is intense and I love it. When I get home I'll have some good pics so we can ID all my stuff. Most of the places I get it have no idea what it is and I can't take a good enough pic to get an ID.

PS sorry for these pics, our pic guru had something to say about em. HEHE

[Ninong]

Maybe I did misunderstand him but if I was to call him right now and ask him if these pieces were from the marshall islands I'm 100 percent positive he would say yes.

Please look at Chad's Ultra Corals page: http://www.reefscience.com/web/ultra_corals1.php

All of those aquacultured pieces are identified by him as coming from Indonesia. None are identified as coming from the Marshall Islands. He seems to call all of his O.R.A. frags ORA Marshall Island Farm Raised Frag.

O.R.A. frags are aquacultured in Florida in this facility:

http://www.orafarm.com/profile.html


Perhaps Chad is confused. O.R.A. has named some of their frags "Marshall Island frag" and some are simply named "Indo frag." But they are aquacultured in Florida. My local LFS had carried O.R.A. livestock for years and they were under the equally erroneous assumption that everything O.R.A. sells is aquacultured in Florida. Their clams are imported.

I don't know, they're nice and if they are from somewhere different I'd like to know for sure where. Also what species they are cause he didn't know.

I gave up on trying to ID any SPS corals from pictures a long time ago. It simply can't be done with any degree of accuracy. I'm satisfied when I'm able to distinguish the genus with any degree of certainty. You might be interested to know that Dustin Dorton has pictures of many of O.R.A.'s corals on his personal website. The purple with green polyps frag that you have is one that they simply call "Marshall Island frag" and it is extremely beautiful when it grows out.

BTW, I just sent Dustin a PM on Reef Central asking him if he agreed with the recommendation of your LFS that his frags should be dipped in freshwater. I'll let you know what he says.

[Samper]

Thanks Ninong for all your help.

What is Dustins website? I can find a bunch of hits when I search his name but not an official site.

[Ninong]

Thanks Ninong for all your help.

What is Dustins website? I can find a bunch of hits when I search his name but not an official site.

I gave you a link to O.R.A.'s official site in my above post. This is just Dustin's personal album: http://www.dustindorton.com/ Click on "work" for pics of O.R.A. corals. BTW, I found that in a post that he made on Reef Central once, so it's sort of public by now. I think.

P.S. -- Chad just updated his Ultra Corals page a few minutes ago (Sunday afternoon): http://www.reefscience.com/web/ultra_corals1.php

[Ninong]

As I suspected, O.R.A. does NOT recommend dipping their SPS frags in freshwater.

Dustin wrote on 03/20/2005 04:33 PM:

No, we don't suggest that to our customers. A short dip with buffered fresh water is tolerated by most corals, but its very harsh. If the store insists they were told that from someone at ORA then perhaps there was some kind of misunderstanding or something. Do you know the name of the store?

Dustin

I explained to Dustin that I don't know that the store is claiming that this advice came from O.R.A., only that the store is dipping their O.R.A. frags in freshwater when they receive them and again when they sell them.

[dustin]

Ninong, ORA does sell an Assorted Marshall Islands acro. When we purchased the clam farm in the Marshall Islands we started to grow corals there. In florida we grow them in closed (recirculating) indoor systems. In the Marshalls they are grown in tanks on land in an open (flow through) system.

Dustin

[Ninong]

Ninong, ORA does sell an Assorted Marshall Islands acro. When we purchased the clam farm in the Marshall Islands we started to grow corals there. In florida we grow them in closed (recirculating) indoor systems. In the Marshalls they are grown in tanks on land in an open (flow through) system.

Dustin

Thanks! I didn't know that.

[Reefland]

Hi dustin, Welcome to Reefland!

[Samper]

Heck yeah. If they are doing something wrong then I think ORA needs to know about it since they sell mostly ORA stuff. I hope my name isn't mentioned though. It's a nice shop and the owner has been somewhat good to me. I have seen no problems out of the pieces I have bought from there even with the FW dipping.

As I suspected, O.R.A. does NOT recommend dipping their SPS frags in freshwater.

Dustin wrote on 03/20/2005 04:33 PM:

No, we don't suggest that to our customers. A short dip with buffered fresh water is tolerated by most corals, but its very harsh. If the store insists they were told that from someone at ORA then perhaps there was some kind of misunderstanding or something. Do you know the name of the store?

Dustin

I explained to Dustin that I don't know that the store is claiming that this advice came from O.R.A., only that the store is dipping their O.R.A. frags in freshwater when they receive them and again when they sell them. I'll let you know what comes of his conversation with the folks at Aqua Escape.

[Samper]

Dustin, I know my pics are bad but is there any way you could tell what they are and where they were raised at? The second pic isn't supposed to be from you guys but still from the Marshall Islands. Good to have you here.

[dustin]

Samper, honestly I cant tell from those pictures. Any chance of taking some new ones?

Dustin, I know my pics are bad but is there any way you could tell what they are and where they were raised at? The second pic isn't supposed to be from you guys but still from the Marshall Islands. Good to have you here.

[Samper]

In a few weeks I'll have access to a better camera.

[Poseidon]

HAA HAA... I wasn't that hard on you was I???

[Samper]

I cried for a few days Mike....

Ninong I asked Dr. Ron about the ID of Tegastes acroporanus this is his response.
I'm awaiting one from Eric still

Re: Tegastes acroporanus
"Hi,

The red bugs have not been satisfactorily identified. This may be difficult as there appear to be at least two different types of them.

There is one that appears to be a highly modified harpacticoid copepod. This one may be in the genus Tegastes. Whether or not it is even scientifically described awaits a lot more work. Tegastes has been described in the literature as parasitic, but no work has actually been done on its diet. It has been described thus only because it is found on and in corals. Eric Borneman has done some work on this bug and found that actual Tegastes have different behavior than the one commonly seen by the bugs on corals in aquaria. It lives almost entirely INSIDE the coral and is infrequently seen on their surfaces.

So... poor guess for a name or identification, but maybe...

The second one appears to be a species of stenothoid amphipod. If so, it is likely undescribed. I sent some of these to an amphipod taxonomist - Dr. Craig Staude at the University of Washington's Friday Harbor Laboratories. He put the tentative identification of them as stenothoids on them. Stenothoids are minute amphipoos that are common ectocommensals on cnidarians in all seas. They are generally regarded as harmless. But, they haven't been studied at all, ecologically.

The two types of bugs I have seen appear, on a gross scale, to be almost identical. The both possess a golden front end and maraschino cherry red abdomen. The easiest way to discriminate them is examine the head, the amphipod will have 2 eyes, the copepod only one.

At this time, I don't think it is fruitful to put any names on them. To call the things Tegastes, for example, you would have to dissect them and compare appendage structure to that described in the original description. Really, pretty much the same for amphipod. I have dissected animals as small as these, but it is not an excercise for a twitcy morning... and it must be done under at least 100x magnification.

So..."

[Ninong]

I'm awaiting one from Eric still

Eric answered this question in great detail just a few weeks ago on another board. I remember forwarding the link to zhenya, maybe he still has it. I don't store anything in my PM files longer than ten days or so.