[prow]

hi everyone how you all doing. good i hope. well i have been working on my coral list and come up with a first draft/list. wanted to run it by you guys and get any thoughts you might have. the list below of fish and creatures will stay. i need advice on the coral list. ok here is my set up

Tank……: 72x18x20H acrylic

Filtration..
: 45 gal. Sump with 30lbs of Miracle Mud and growing red Gracilaria
: 20 inch Coralife 18watt T5 10k light going 24/7.
: Sedra 1200gph and 586gph (total of 1786gph) pumps for the sump return
: 2- Penguin 550 Powerheads (Marineland) 145gph. ea. (in main tank)

Lighting
: 2- Icecap 660 Electronic Ballasts.
: 6-80watt 60” T5HO lights divided as follows:
; 2 - 6000K ATI Sun bulbs
; 1 - 6500K GE Starcoat bulb
; 2 – ATI True Actinic bulbs
; 1 - 11K ATI Aqua Blue bulb


Fish List:
1-Green clown goby (Gobioudon atrangulatrus)
1-Yellow clown goby (Gobioudon okiwawee)
5-Dispar anthias (Mirolabrichthys dispar)
2-Lineatus fairy wrasse (Cirrhilabrus lineatus)
1-Canary blenny (Meiacanthus ovalaunensis)
1-Regal angel (Pygoplites diacanthus )
2-False percula clown (Amphiprion ocellaris)
1-Kole yellow eye tang (Ctenochaetus strigosus )


Creatures:
2-Feather duster (Sabellastarte sp.)
2- Dwarf colored feather duster (Bispira sp.)
2-Cleaner shrimp (Lysmata amboinensis))
1-Electric blue hermit crab (Calcinus elegans)
5-Zebra hermit crabs (Calcinus laevimanus)
5-Red legged mexican hermit crab (Clibanarius digueti)
1-Red flame serpent starfish (Ophioderma rubicundum)
1-Tiger serpent starfish (Ophiolepsis superba)
2- Turbo snail mexican (Turbo fluctuosa)
10-Nassarius snail (Nassarius vibex)
10-Turbo snails (Turbo fluctuosa)

Corals:
LPS
White bubble (Plerogyra sp.)
Elegance (Catalaphyllia jardinei)
Cynarina button (Cynarina sp.)
Candy cane (Caulastrea furcata)
Orange tube (Tubastrea aurea)
Lobophyllia brain (Lobophyllia spp.)
Red open brain (Trachyphyllia geoffroyi )

SPS
Blue Acropora (Acropora sp.)
Birdsnest (Seriatopora hystrix)
Merulina (Merulina ampliata)

Leather
Carnation tree (Dendronephthya sp.)
Yellow Fiji leather (Sarcophyton elegans)
Toadstool leather (Sarcophyton sp.)
Green tree (Nepthea sp.)

Misc. Coral
Red finger gorgonia (Diodogorgia nodulifera)
Green lace gorgonia (Gorgonia species)
Blue mushroom (Actinodiscus sp.)


Clams
Crocea clam (Tridacna crocea)
Maxima clam (Tridacna maxima)

what do you guys think. any recomendations???

[almostdiva]

Prow,

Sounds like it will be a great tank! I really like your final fish/animal list. I myself don't go in much for brains as far as LPS go (I like all the euphids and tubastria), but that will be a fabulous looking tank when you are done!

[zhenya]

I like the list for the most part but would like to point out few of the choices that may be problematic/challenging.

In the coral list I would suggest further research into a Dendronephtya species, this particular corals all but impossible to keep long term and may be a waste of resourses, especially in the beginning.
From the stonies, I would also caution about purchasing Ctalaphyllia jardinei , I had tried myself two or three times and failed to keep them for any length of time. Those sorals used to be the easiest corals to keep but that was some time ago and for the last few years most of the specimens that do come in die in the short order.

In the fish list, the angelfish may present some challenges with keeping LPS type corals in the same tank but there are quite a few people that have done it and had no serious prblems. So I wish you good luck with it as well.

[kevinpo]

The Regal angel may be a problem with the T. geoffroyi and Lobophyllia so be prepared to remove them quickly.

Most Birdnest and blue Acropora corals will turn brown under the lighting you propose.

The 2 species of clams you have chosen will be a challenge to keep unless they are placed very high in the rockwork or target fed phytoplankton.

Sarcophyton corals can excrete chemical compounds (i.e. terpenes) that can have a negative impact on LPS and SPS corals.

Careful placement of the Gorgonia and Mushroom corals is a must, as they will overgrow other corals in time.

I concur with Zhenya on his remarks

Regards,
Kevin

[szwedo]

ok correct me if im wrong on this but i read somewhere that elegance corals need a somewhat "dirty" tank to survive. as in they acctually need nitrites to survive.this is probly the reason they used to be so easy to keep. back then tanks didnt have all this high-tech filtration equipment. but i agree the angel will probably not work with the LPS corals and dont try the elegance mine died in a week. all the ones in the LFS die soon too.

[prow]

-hey everyone thanks for the input. i think i will be getting rid of the sps corals. clams not sure but if they do go in will not be for at least a couple of years. does any one have any idea on something that likes a strong current and light to place at the top of the tank besides sps.

-also does anyone know how noxus the leather/softies secreations are to the LPS. if so which ones are more noxus than others or which LPS are more sensitive to it. or visa vera

[zhenya]

Originally Posted by prow

-hey everyone thanks for the input. i think i will be getting rid of the sps corals. clams not sure but if they do go in will not be for at least a couple of years. does any one have any idea on something that likes a strong current and light to place at the top of the tank besides sps.

-also does anyone know how noxus the leather/softies secreations are to the LPS. if so which ones are more noxus than others or which LPS are more sensitive to it. or visa vera

Give this thread a read over.
TOTW Coral Warfare

[prow]

Originally Posted by zhenya

Give this thread a read over.
TOTW Coral Warfare

-cool thanks, i like the link you added in that thread too, the advancedaquarist. nice read. i think i have a good idea about the generization of each type of coral and now i have a big list of not so noxous or sensitive corals. need to research these guys will be back with a more workable list for you guys to check out. thanks for all the help.

[kevinpo]

ok correct me if im wrong on this but i read somewhere that elegance corals need a somewhat "dirty" tank to survive.

We are currently unsure of what the problem is with Elegance corals (Catalaphyllia jardenei). I kept one for 6 years then it slowly declined and died. It had grown very large and even spawned. Eric Borneman was performing a study on them but we are still awaiting the results. I personally believe it is a pathogen that they catch from other corals. I believe it was rare in the wild but has spread through wholesale distributors holding tanks (JMO).

Regards,
Kevin

[prow]

Originally Posted by kevinpo

We are currently unsure of what the problem is with Elegance corals (Catalaphyllia jardenei). I kept one for 6 years then it slowly declined and died. It had grown very large and even spawned. Eric Borneman was performing a study on them but we are still awaiting the results. I personally believe it is a pathogen that they catch from other corals. I believe it was rare in the wild but has spread through wholesale distributors holding tanks (JMO).

Regards,
Kevin

hey kevin,

i read Eric Bornemans' project on the elegance corals but have not seen anything new from that project for a couple years. Last i heard he was waitting for registering them or something like that. What was the last thing you heard about it. My own research points to a parasite some type of bug or worm. kinda looks like maggits. have seen these,i will refer to them as "maggits", a few times and heard about other hobbiest seening them as well. might be same problem or totally unrelated however the signs and symptoms seen in the corals follows the same pattern and ends with the same result. anyway i would like to hear if anything new has come out of Erics elegance project. if have any new info on it can you tell me or direct me to it. thanks

[zhenya]

prow,

I failed to find anything in the corals that I had tried, no parasites or organisms that would look suspicious, just some occasional pod or two within the skeleton.That is not to say that it is not possible to have some type of parasite that is responsible for all this failures in the past few years.

As far as "dirty water" comment, they used to be collected commonly in the lagoons in the seagrass beds but from what I have read most of them lately been collected from the deeper waters. I don't believe there is all that much nutrients on the reef as it is in anyone's reeftank.

As far as Eric's research goes, there isn't anything new as far as I know. If and when it becomes available I'm sure Eric will write something about it, either in Reefkeeping magazine or some other venue.

[prow]

kevin,

after my last post i called the good folks at Sea World and spoke with someone in there coral conservation department. they gave me some real good info i would like to share with you. the idea that this coral likes poor quality water is very wrong. the general consensious at Sea World is "dirty" water might be the main problem. they say dialtons can grow and push the edges of the coral off its skeleton and allow opertunistic bac to invade. also bristle worms seem to like to make a home out of this coral and cause further weakening of it. they did say something about the corals ability to absorb minerals with dkh higher than 9 is greatly reduced. if the dkh is more than 9. (most tanks the dkh is higher) may cause the coral to slowly starve to death or weaken it defenses for opertunistic pathogens to invade. they had also mentioned that there are really two sub species that are still considered the same but they expect that to change. one has yellow tips on the tenticles and come froms deeper water that is more turbulant. where as the other doesnt have the yellow tips and resides in lagoon area with more calm water. they also said that the feeding is a little different in that the yellow tip rely on filter feeding more so and less on photosynthesis. i am still trying to cross referance this info and see what comes up. thought i would get your 02 on it. really interested in the dkh thing does it have any validity to it.

[charlie]

That is some excellent info, thanx for the research!!!! It would be nice to see us be able to keep this coral again, but I have my doubts. Keep us updated, if you please.

[kevinpo]

There is a parasitic flatworm that does inhabit this (and other LPS) corals but it does not do much if any harm to the coral. I run my DKH at an average of 8.2, which is a bit higher than NSW, but I have run it at that level since 1997. The coral I had did very well until late 2003 when it was partially eaten by an angelfish and had to be moved to another tank. It slowly declined after the move over a period of 6 months or so. I even attempted to frag it into several pieces and place them in 3 different tanks. All the pieces declined at about the same rate.

I have noticed that abnormally high alkalinty levels (by that I mean higher than NSW) coincide with STN and RTN events in some SPS corals and so there is a possibility that a negative reaction could be possible from this coral as well although almost all LPS corals that have settled into your tank seem quite hardy IME.

Regards,
Kevin

[prow]

hi guys and girls. hope everyone is feeling well today. that sucks about your coral kevin. sorry to hear that. i have a new list for you to check out.





Here are the corals, listed roughly where I plan to place them:

Top
Green Acropora coral (Acropora sp.)
Purple Acropora coral (Acropora sp.)
2-blue Acropora coral (Acropora sp.)
Green Crocea clam

Mid Top
Clavularia glove polyps (Clavularia sp)
Candy cane coral (Caulastrea furcata)
Orange tube coral (Tubastrea aurea)

Mid (opposite sides of tank )
Elegance coral (Catalaphyllia jardinei)
White bubble coral (Plerogyra sp.)

Mid
Blue Corcea clam
Red carnation tree coral (Dendronephthya sp.)
Closed brain pineapple coral (Favites spp.)

Bottom
Cynarina button coral (Cynarina)-(lower rock)
Green lobe brain coral (Lobophyllia spp)-(in sand)
Red open brain coral(Trachyphyllia geoffroyi)-(in sand)


i have some more info on the elegance. i want to bounce it off you guys. i will get it all togather and make a new post in a week or so. i also have been doing some research on the carnation and have a few ideas about it. i will make a new thread about that too. i hope to talk a little more in depth about thses 2 corals in the other threads later. so besides the issues with the elegance and carnation what do you think. and thaks for all the help and feedback very nice look foreward to hearing form you guys and girls on many subjects to come

[almostdiva]

Prow,

If you DO decide to try the elegance, you can't keep it in the middle of the tank. It needs to be on the sand bed.

[prow]

Originally Posted by almostdiva

Prow,

If you DO decide to try the elegance, you can't keep it in the middle of the tank. It needs to be on the sand bed.

excellant advice, good looking out thanks. was planning on that just never changed it on the list.
just an FYI about the carnation. i will be meeting with sandy trautwien at the Aquarium of the Pacific in Long Beach California this week. they have had some good success with the carnation. i hope to gain some insight on there tech/methods used (feeding, placement ect..) will share what i learn next week.

[kevinpo]

All LPS corals can be placed in the sand or rockwork as long as they receive the proper lighting and flow. Often LPS corals have long stinging tentacles, can expand to large sizes, and require less light, so they are placed on the sand. There is no special requirement, or interaction with the sand that I know of.

Regards,
Kevin

[saltjunkie]

no longer alive due to trama i guess of a tank move...
but it was nowhere near the sand..

[saltjunkie]

another..it also had a host clown...