[rebrob]

Took the water to a water specialist place.
They measured the TDS before the ro/di and after the ro/di.

The BEFORE was 700 TDS
The AFTER was almost 1000!!!!!!

So the RO is not only not working it seems like it is making matters worse.
I just want to know from the pros

1) is changing the RO Membrane going to make my TDS go down enough to be able to use my water?

2) is there something else that could be contributing like my old Carbon and Sediment filter which i will be changing with the membrane?

3) does 700 TDS seem really high for post-softner water?

4) doesn't changing the Membrane every 9 months seem a litte quick? My Maxxima Hi-s is only 9-10 months old.


thanks for all your help

robbie

ps. I think reefland wrote about the TDS at the beginning. He is soo smart

[yankeebobo]

Glad to hear you found the culprit. It has been an interesting thread to read.

[ldrhawke]

If you don't properly set up your RO bypass ratio and restrict water flow it is easy to blow out an RO membrane. It sounds like that is what you have done. Dumping that much nitrate and phosphate into your system will cause a few problems.

[rebrob]

1) there is no adjustment process on this system. When i set it up, it was just placing the certain hoses into the specific containers, and putting in the right cartridges. Do you know how to adjust the "bypass ratio" and restrict water flow in my cartridge.


2) the phosphates are currently really low around .02 and the nitrates are at 15 ppm - if i was dumping nitrates and phosphates, wouldn't that boost my test numbers?

[ldrhawke]

What did you do with the directions that came with the unit?

Example:

Checking the Concentrate to Purified Water Ratio

This procedure will assure you of maximum life and reliability of
your SpectraPure System.

Failure to perform this procedure can permanently damage the
membranes and will void the pro-rated Membrane Warranty.
In order to maximize the life of your SpectraPure RO Membrane, you
may need to adjust the ratio of the concentrate to purified water.
If not enough concentrate is allowed to flow past the membrane
during operation, the impurities will precipitate out on the mem-
brane surface, clogging the RO Membrane. To keep this from hap-
pening, the Concentrate to Purified Water Ratio must be checked
and adjusted in order to compensate for pressure and temperature
variations that exist in all water supplies. The flow rate of the concen-
trate must be a minimum of 4X the product flow rate. 4X to 6X is an
acceptable concentrate flow rate.

Procedure:
1. Open the cold water supply valve and let the system run for
15 minutes.

2. Collect product water from the blue tubing into a measuring
cup for two minutes. Measure the collected amount in milli-
liters and divide by 2. The resultant is the product flow
rate in Milliliters per Minute.
(Although not needed in this proceedure, the daily product
flow rate in Gallons per Day (GPD) can be calculated to be
equal to the product flow rate times 0.38 ).

3. Use the procedures and tables on the following pages to
determine the optimum length of the flow restrictor capillary
tubing. After adjusting the flow restrictor, repeat the above
procedure and recheck the Concentrate to Purified Water
Ratio.

[rebrob]

read all your stuff and even found the spectrapure manual online to read more about it. Problem is i don't think my Maxxima comes with a flow restrictor. I tried to research but couldn't find anything more. I emailed Kent marine, so we'll see. If anyone else knows anything about this stuff on a Kent Marine Maxxima HI-s 35 gpd, that would be great.

[rebrob]

I emailed with Kent Marine and they said the flow constrictor is cut for my unit.

Today was my first day of with the new water after I replaced my carbon, sediment and membrane filters. I took the product water back to the water place, and they said the tds is NOW AT 5 PPM . YEAHH!!!

I did 10 gallons of water change, siphoning, yet the bubbles (precursor to more slime) appeared within a few hours. I imagine this is going to take a long time considering i've been dumping a hefty amount of tds in the tank.

[ldrhawke]

Originally Posted by rebrob

I emailed with Kent Marine and they said the flow constrictor is cut for my unit.

Today was my first day of with the new water after I replaced my carbon, sediment and membrane filters. I took the product water back to the water place, and they said the tds is NOW AT 5 PPM . YEAHH!!!

I did 10 gallons of water change, siphoning, yet the bubbles (precursor to more slime) appeared within a few hours. I imagine this is going to take a long time considering i've been dumping a hefty amount of tds in the tank.

That's great, but having increased PPM from a bad RO unit doesn't explain the fish deaths from water changes. I doubt if the LFS testing your water uses a Hach test kit for chloramine.

Have you check with your Water Department as to if they dose chloramines? If they do you may need to add a couple more carbon filters in series and change them more frequently.

[rebrob]

my hunch is, the deaths were caused by when i used the power head to blow all the crap all over the place. I know i blew a lot of sand in the sand bed, and i know my nitrates spiked. If the fish were a little stressed, don't ya think the spike might have done them in. Also i run the tank at about 82-84. If they were stressing a little, plus the nitrate spike, plus the water is a little high as it is, maybe that did them in. Bottom line is the fish seem to be doing ok since that time.

I did ask about chloramines, they said no. But i did learn that my water is extremely hard because the water softner was broken. I will get that fixed which should help a lot of things, least of which take pressure off of the RO/DI.

[ldrhawke]

New York Rural Water Assoc. reprint

Comparing Chlorine Disinfection Methods

Chloramine Conversion – Something in Your Water Is About to Change

In 2006, Poughkeepsie’ Water Treatment Facility will change our distribution system disinfectant from free chlorine to chloramine. Chloramine is a combination of chlorine and ammonia that is regarded as a more reliable disinfectant in distribution systems than chlorine alone because it lasts longer. Chloramines also produce lower levels of disinfection by-products compared to chlorine. As a result this change will improve drinking water quality and meet more stringent state and federal regulations on drinking water quality.

Water containing chloramine is completely safe for all people to use for drinking, bathing, watering plants and gardens, and other household uses. However, some water users who currently remove chlorine from their water for other uses will also have to remove chloramines. These water users include kidney dialysis centers and home dialysis patients, owners of aquariums, and businesses that use chlorine-free water in their treatment processes. If you are a water user who will be specifically affected by this change (e.g., you operate a kidney dialysis center or use home dialysis equipment, you own a tropical aquarium or a pet store, or you are involved in a business that uses chlorine-free water), please contact us so we can add you to our mailing list for future information. You may contact us by sending an email to publicinfo@pokwater.com or by leaving a message at 845-451-4173 x44. Additional information about the conversion to chloramine disinfection is available at www.pokwater.com public libraries, and municipal halls.


Chloramines

Chloramines are chemical compounds formed by combining a specific ratio of chlorine and ammonia in water. Because chloramines are relatively weak as a disinfectant, they are almost never used as a primary disinfectant. Chloramines provide a durable residual, and are often used as a secondary disinfectant for long distribution lines and where free chlorine demand is high. Chloramines may also be used instead of chlorine in order to reduce chlorinated by-product formation and to remove some taste and odor problems.

Advantages

Reduced formation of THMs, HAAs
Will not oxidize bromide to bromine forming brominated by-products bn
More stable residual than free chlorine
Excellent secondary disinfectant, has been found to be better than free chlorine at controlling coliform bacteria and biofilm growth
Lower taste and odor than free chlorine
Limitations

Weak disinfectant and oxidant
Requires shipment and handling of ammonia or ammonia compounds as well as chlorinating chemicals
Ammonia is toxic to fish, and may pose problems for aquarium owners
Will cause problems for kidney dialysis if not removed from water

[My2heartboys]

Originally Posted by rebrob

my hunch is, the deaths were caused by when i used the power head to blow all the crap all over the place. I know i blew a lot of sand in the sand bed, and i know my nitrates spiked. If the fish were a little stressed, don't ya think the spike might have done them in. Also i run the tank at about 82-84. If they were stressing a little, plus the nitrate spike, plus the water is a little high as it is, maybe that did them in. Bottom line is the fish seem to be doing ok since that time.

I did ask about chloramines, they said no. But i did learn that my water is extremely hard because the water softner was broken. I will get that fixed which should help a lot of things, least of which take pressure off of the RO/DI.

I would keep tank temp below 80. I try to keep mine between 75-80 that way I can hopefully eliminate major temp swings.

Anne

[rebrob]

I did email Poughkeepsie and i emailed the head of the water department, just in case the desk guy really didn't know what i was talking about.

I did some research on the chloramine issue. I found this very interesting article which i think even used your ro/di unit.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php

Let me know your professional reefkeeping opinion.

Based on the article, since my carbon filter was shot for a while as well as the RO, I'm sure, if the water people lied, that I did have some chloramines in the tank. Hopefully with good water changes and replacing the filter in the sump, that should do the job.

[rebrob]

i meant i email poughkeepsie and the head of MY water department (bedford NY)

[rebrob]

Anne,

Temp was an old probelm (3 months ago) I had when i bought my new T5's. After posting about temps i learned that keeping temp constant is almost more important than the temp. Therefore, i keep my heater set to 82 and i turn on my fan when the lights are on. I get a swing of about a degree. Based on the advice on the forum, this seemed like a great solution.

thanks for the thoughts,
Robbie

[My2heartboys]

Originally Posted by rebrob

Anne,

Temp was an old probelm (3 months ago) I had when i bought my new T5's. After posting about temps i learned that keeping temp constant is almost more important than the temp. Therefore, i keep my heater set to 82 and i turn on my fan when the lights are on. I get a swing of about a degree. Based on the advice on the forum, this seemed like a great solution.

thanks for the thoughts,
Robbie

Glad you thought of it before me. I know that keeping the tank above 80 is OK, you have to watch it though, because the corals start to bleach out around 85 or so I have heard. Mine usually swings between 75 and 80 degrees during the day. Actually it is a cycle-swings up during the day with the lights coming on-ambient temp in room going up and normal daytime activities and then starts gradually going down starting after the lights go out. None of the changes are sudden and they are pretty much the same day in and day out (so far, but with a Kansas winter ahead-you know stability could go out the window).

Anne

[Reefland]

Robbie,

Just keep in mind that frequent water changes and siphoing will be the key to beating this algae. It's not going to happen overnight, but doing this for a couple of months will eventually starve the algae out. I would do a water change and siphon the mat out. When you see it reappearing perform another water change and siphon again. I would continually repeat this until you beat it.

Also I know you dose B-Ionic, do you dose anything else? "Trace Elements" or other?

[My2heartboys]

Originally Posted by Reefland

Robbie,

Just keep in mind that frequent water changes and siphoing will be the key to beating this algae. It's not going to happen overnight, but doing this for a couple of months will eventually starve the algae out. I would do a water change and siphon the mat out. When you see it reappearing perform another water change and siphon again. I would continually repeat this until you beat it.

Also I know you dose B-Ionic, do you dose anything else? "Trace Elements" or other?

Scott, can I add that trying to add that it might be helpful to add some saltwater TLC, Biozyme, Cycle, or Stability. If you can boost the good bacteria--you might be able to starve out the cyano.

Just a thought FWIW

Anne

[My2heartboys]

Originally Posted by Reefland

Robbie,

Just keep in mind that frequent water changes and siphoing will be the key to beating this algae. It's not going to happen overnight, but doing this for a couple of months will eventually starve the algae out. I would do a water change and siphon the mat out. When you see it reappearing perform another water change and siphon again. I would continually repeat this until you beat it.

Also I know you dose B-Ionic, do you dose anything else? "Trace Elements" or other?

Scott, can I add that trying to add that it might be helpful to add some saltwater TLC, Biozyme, Cycle, or Stability. If you can boost the good bacteria--you might be able to starve out the cyano.

Just a thought FWIW

Anne

[rebrob]

Scott,

No trace elements other than a one week dosage of l:
1) loguls - 4 drops
2) strotium - 8 mls

nothing else.

Im still water changing - 10 gallons every few days.

still coming back but at least it doesn't look as bad. On a daily basis.

[Reefland]

It's a difficult battle but will be worth it in the long run. If I may suggest, do not dose either of these two supplements for a couple of weeks to see if you notice any difference.