[ibjmg]

this is what my LFS told me to do for the first 6 months of starting to add supplements.I test my calcium/alk every two weeks.calcium/ ALK is high. Should be doing this differently or a supplement that I should change or add? Anybody want to share their tank secheule


monday, Thursday (4 1/2tsps calcium,3caps Essential.Elements,DT live 3caps)
Tuesday,Friday (4 1/4tsps alk,4 caps strontium, 3 caps micro-vert)
wednesday (7 drops Lougols solution,3 caps DT live)
saturday (4 caps micro-vert)
Sunday (15 Gallon water change ,DT-LIVE 3 caps)

Its a 180 gallon tank



PH 8.2
alk 3.24
calc 500
nitrate 5
ammonia N/A
S G 1.024



Doing a 15 gallon water change today

[My2heartboys]

Originally Posted by ibjmg

this is what my LFS told me to do for the first 6 months of starting to add supplements.I test my calcium/alk every two weeks.calcium/ ALK is high. Should be doing this differently or a supplement that I should change or add? Anybody want to share their tank secheule


monday, Thursday (4 1/2tsps calcium,3caps Essential.Elements,DT live 3caps)
Tuesday,Friday (4 1/4tsps alk,4 caps strontium, 3 caps micro-vert)
wednesday (7 drops Lougols solution,3 caps DT live)
saturday (4 caps micro-vert)
Sunday (15 Gallon water change ,DT-LIVE 3 caps)

Its a 180 gallon tank



PH 8.2
alk 3.24
calc 500
nitrate 5
ammonia N/A
S G 1.024



Doing a 15 gallon water change today

I am not sure. What I have done was to just pick a couple of days a week to add supplements (slowly mind you and for my needs on the light side of what is said on the bottle because of low population) so that I do not add supplements on the same day that might react together and do some not so funky things with the water. I also have a much smaller tank than you. I do tend to test calcium, pH, alkalinity, and hardness quite often (don't ask me how often as I am getting into the bad habit of testing and not writing down when or what the results were). Some have online aquarium logs that can be looked at, but I will say that the subject of supplements tends to be a very touchy one. First thing I agree with (which is the main reason I go light on my supplements because I don't have all of the tests yet) don't add something that you can't test for. I would also say watch what you add. Sometimes different supplements can have the same ingredients as what you are adding with your basic supplements (which will eventually result in over dosing your tank). Stick to the basic supplements and pass up things like purple up, coral accel, etc. because those will already have strontium, calcium, iodine, and other basic elements in them.

Currently here is what I am adding--Tech M, Coral Vite (which I can do away with once I finish the bottle as it duplicates much of what I am already adding--duh go and break my own rules), Iron, Iodine, Strontium and Molybdenum, Liquid Calcium (have yet to add more than half a capful as my calcium levels have been OK for the most part), Pro Buffer dKH (again-I stress that I add this very very very slowly even though it is a small amount that I add), and Essential Elements (I will be pondering even being able to do away with this one as it duplicates much of what I already put in--geesh not good at following my own rules am I?). The only brand I use is Kent and again pondering doing away with some of them. As soon as I get a gravity drip system, I will be using kalkwasser every couple of months in place of the calcium and dKH so that I can obtain some of the benefits without all of the expense. The local LFS I deal with has these things on his shelf, but he and his wife shoot for educating the customer while tending to them and a lot of times finding that customers are either adding stuff too often, too much too often or testing too often. They told me that once my tank was done cycling that I should only test for ammonia and nitrites when I noticed that something in my tank was acting "off."

What are the following that you are adding: 7 drops Lougols solution and 3 caps micro-vert? Also are you adding more than what the bottles recommend?

HTH

Anne

[ibjmg]

[quote=My2heartboys

What are the following that you are adding: 7 drops Lougols solution and 3 caps micro-vert? Also are you adding more than what the bottles recommend?

lougol iodine is 1 drop per 25 gallon and the microvertis 1 capful per 55 gallons.
this is something I have always ???? is supplements.
A wise old reefer told me that if it not broke or does not look sick.
DONT MESS WITH IT.
still questioning how often i should check my cal/alk?

[My2heartboys]

[quote=ibjmg][quote=My2heartboys

What are the following that you are adding: 7 drops Lougols solution and 3 caps micro-vert? Also are you adding more than what the bottles recommend?

lougol iodine is 1 drop per 25 gallon and the microvertis 1 capful per 55 gallons.
this is something I have always ???? is supplements.
A wise old reefer told me that if it not broke or does not look sick.
DONT MESS WITH IT.
still questioning how often i should check my cal/alk?[/QUOTE]
That reefer is indeed wise!!!

Cal/Alk-would depend on how stocked your aquarium is. I would suggest no less than once a week. More frequently after new additions until your system settles down and rebalances itself.

I will go to Fosters and Smith to find out exactly what microvert is and hopefully what it contains--although they are not that great about letting buyers see ingredient labels.

Anne

[Poseidon]

I add NOTHING but Kalkwasser... Everything else you get from a high quality salt mix.

Here is an example of what NOT adding supplements can do for you as far as growth...

1-4-04


10-11-05 Trumpet


2-5-05 Milli


I thought I had an updated pic of the Milli... but that shows my point pretty well. Spend your money on something else more productive then supplements that you don't NEED!

Oh I still have teh blasto too, but it has been "fenced in" by some Zoo's so it is much the same size...

[My2heartboys]

Like I said ibjmg, when it comes to supplements there's not a lot of help here on most of the reef boards. Most of them are antisupplement. I am trying to walk middle of the road as my local LFS person has also recommended supplements. I would say study the chemistry, know what your levels are supposed to be, don't add anything you can't test for, and then test test test test. One more thing--when adding supplements follow the bottle's directions and never add more than what the bottle recommends and stick with the basic supplements. OK--so that was two--sorry.

Anne

[Poseidon]

Originally Posted by My2heartboys

Like I said ibjmg, when it comes to supplements there's not a lot of help here on most of the reef boards. Most of them are antisupplement. I am trying to walk middle of the road as my local LFS person has also recommended supplements. I would say study the chemistry, know what your levels are supposed to be, don't add anything you can't test for, and then test test test test. One more thing--when adding supplements follow the bottle's directions and never add more than what the bottle recommends and stick with the basic supplements. OK--so that was two--sorry.

Anne
vbmenu_register("postmenu_114141", true);

Anne, why are you so Pro Supplement? Do you have evidence that proves the benefits? Are you taking the word of a LFS? I guess I just don't understand, several very successfull reefers have showed evidence that most supplements are not required, yet you still reccomend them. Some reefers such as Zhenya, Ninong, and Reefland all have pHDs in Reefing as far as I am concerned, and they choose NOT to add these magic elixirs. I truly believe that once a reefer gains enough time in the hobby they will see the futility of most supplements. Heck I used to use several by SeaChem, once I quit using them I did not see ANY change. That proved to me that they were useless. I believe you may have been snowballed by your LFS, they could very well believe they are telling you correct information, that belief however does not make it correct.

Please understand I am not attacking you, just trying to find the reason for your belief. Especially when it is contrary to most others on the boards, like you pointed out. You may have fallen victim to a great sales pitch, and there is nothing wrong with that either, Salesman in the early 1900's had several hundred thousand people consuming RADIUM in their water, because the SAID it was good. There was NO evidence to prove its effectiveness, just the word of the saleman. If they had actually done the research they would have found out how destructive it actually was, and I am sure they never would have sold the stuff!

I am not saying supplements are destructive like Radium Water was, but I am saying that they provide little benefit for a LOT of cost. Heck one popular supplement, Marine Snow, was found to be somewhere around 99% WATER! I don't know about you, but water comes pretty cheap to me!

[Samper]

In regards to the iodine additions and whatnot...there has been plenty of research to show that most aquariums are very high in Iodine due to the foods we feed. Up until recently I dosed a 2 part but do much better with just water changes for renewal of trace elements and limewater drips at night. It doesn't get any cheaper or easier than that.

[My2heartboys]

Originally Posted by Poseidon

Anne, why are you so Pro Supplement? Do you have evidence that proves the benefits? Are you taking the word of a LFS? I guess I just don't understand, several very successfull reefers have showed evidence that most supplements are not required, yet you still reccomend them. Some reefers such as Zhenya, Ninong, and Reefland all have pHDs in Reefing as far as I am concerned, and they choose NOT to add these magic elixirs. I truly believe that once a reefer gains enough time in the hobby they will see the futility of most supplements. Heck I used to use several by SeaChem, once I quit using them I did not see ANY change. That proved to me that they were useless. I believe you may have been snowballed by your LFS, they could very well believe they are telling you correct information, that belief however does not make it correct.

Please understand I am not attacking you, just trying to find the reason for your belief. Especially when it is contrary to most others on the boards, like you pointed out. You may have fallen victim to a great sales pitch, and there is nothing wrong with that either, Salesman in the early 1900's had several hundred thousand people consuming RADIUM in their water, because the SAID it was good. There was NO evidence to prove its effectiveness, just the word of the saleman. If they had actually done the research they would have found out how destructive it actually was, and I am sure they never would have sold the stuff!

I am not saying supplements are destructive like Radium Water was, but I am saying that they provide little benefit for a LOT of cost. Heck one popular supplement, Marine Snow, was found to be somewhere around 99% WATER! I don't know about you, but water comes pretty cheap to me!

That is why I try to stay middle of the road. Because of the reefers here that have gone without and because of my LFS. I trust what is being said, but CHOOSE to take a little insurance out with some supplementing.

Now as I gain more experience and knowledge-I may choose to tinker with things again and start dropping supplements left and right. At this point this is what works for me and my tank. I have gone to the same LFS and repeated some of what has been said here and other places and have gotten a really strange look-so until I can fly this thing on my own....

You will also notice that while I am pro-supplement, I don't advocate dumping in every single supplement that can be found into my tank (or anybody else's).

For me I look at it the same way I look at a skimmer-you can run your reef tank without one (and some do and have great sucess at it and will heatedly argue that that would be the way to go), but I CHOOSE to take that little bit of insurance out for my tank for the time being. I am by no means meaning to denigrate anybody who chooses not to go the same route I am. I will continue to gather knowledge from them and try to apply compromises from both camps and when I get to the point where I feel I can go without the back-up of supplementation is when I will take them away.

To those who choose the path without supplementation and have had great sucess at doing so--I applaud your efforts, drool all over your pictures, and strive for the day that I also can do so and have a tank that looks equally as good.

HTH and I do not take your post as an attack--I hope mine is accepted in like manner.

Anne

[ibjmg]

WOW
now thats good reading material.
I too wish that drop all these supplements .
So far I know that cal/alk is probably most important .

with the pickling lime not to comfertable with that how does that affect you calcium then what do you do for the alk?


these supplements are digging a hole in my pocket . also some times I miss a day or so.


so my list of thing I supp IS way to much?

Can you give me addvice on what I should to every week.
to better my tank.
Seems to me that I am always doing something to it.

thanks jerrod

[ibjmg]

I add NOTHING but Kalkwasser... Everything else you get from a high quality salt mix.

Here is an example of what NOT adding supplements can do for you as far as growth...



now that is beautiful how often do use kalk wasser?
I use oceanic I know it not top of the line should I change to reef crystals,IO?
how do you keep your water quality perfect?
Iknow water changes I do them every week .

[Poseidon]

HI Jerrod,

That is the beauty of kalk, it is a BALANCED additive meaning it will supplement BOTH Ca and Alk levels. Personally I dissolve 1/2 Tbs into 3 gallons of fresh water. Then I drip in the clear mix over night. Very simple to do, and CHEAP TOO! As far as frequency, I dose that every other day. I use it as top off water to replace evaporated water. Killing 2 birds with one stone so to speak...

[ibjmg]

thanks alot mike,
Im sure Ill have questions real soon.


jerrod

[ldrhawke]

The problem with suppliments is they can frequently do a lot more harm that good. You can easily upset pH, alk,and Ca balance with some suppliments. Other suppliments can pollute and over load the biological system, or poison the water (iodine over dose).

Reef keeping is much easier if you just follow a simple rule. "copy".....find reef keepers on the web that detail what they have been doing for years and succeeding in keeping nice tanks, and copy it. You will find most don't use any suppliments, other than Ca replenishment, and that most depend only upon partial water changes to replenish trace elements.