[j_man]

Allright I've got to figure this out. I use imported live sand and pure crushed LR and aragonite. coarse and fine mix. Everyone seems to be going crazy over nutrient problems. What is the whole picture, I was under the impression from all my research that sand contributed to the nitrifying process. Als If you stir your sand up, disturb the bed and clean your filter media, wouldn't sand be a good thing? Doesn't it also help the mini brittles and the copepods live?

[Reefland]

j_man,

You have a lot of good questions, however they will take a lot of answers.

First, it is usually considered bad practice to mix large particles with fins sand. The reason for this is that the large particles will inevitably work their way to the surface of the bed and make it difficult for snails to work the built-up waste into the sand bed where it can be processes. A deep fine bed of sand is all that is needed to help denitrification.

Stirring up the sand is also considered bad practice. The sand bed is full of lie that can be destroyed through these stirring activities, and besides it makes a nasty cloud in the tank. If denitrification is your reason for employing a DSB, go for one 4"+ deep of very fine sugar sized sand, seed it with some good quality livesand (collected Fiji livesand preferably) and leave it undisturbed.

[My2heartboys]

Originally Posted by j_man

Allright I've got to figure this out. I use imported live sand and pure crushed LR and aragonite. coarse and fine mix. Everyone seems to be going crazy over nutrient problems. What is the whole picture, I was under the impression from all my research that sand contributed to the nitrifying process. Als If you stir your sand up, disturb the bed and clean your filter media, wouldn't sand be a good thing? Doesn't it also help the mini brittles and the copepods live?

It all depends on how deep you go into the bed to stir it. This last time I did a change, I disturbed only the top maybe 1/4 inch or less. I had red stuff growing on my sand and didn't like it. I also kept the siphon in place over the sand so that not too much of the cloud spread in the tank. Whatever of the sand was too heavy to go up the siphon fell right down to the bed.

Also you have to consider what kind of current you are going to create in your tank. Some who have corals that need huge amounts of water flow found that the fine sand made for very poor sandbeds as it was picked up and blown all over the tank.

I do agree with Scott in the fact that you do not want huge particles of sand in your sandbed because it will make it harder for the snails and such to do the job that they usually do.

Anne

[j_man]

I had read several articles stating that you should disturb portions of the sand bed. I do it when I am cleaning, the detrius. From the research it shows disturbed beds hold more life then one that is never touched. The mix was based on actual granular sizes found at different reefs located around the world.

[My2heartboys]

Originally Posted by j_man

I had read several articles stating that you should disturb portions of the sand bed. I do it when I am cleaning, the detrius. From the research it shows disturbed beds hold more life then one that is never touched. The mix was based on actual granular sizes found at different reefs located around the world.

If that is what has worked for you and your tank so far---keep doing it. I think the addage "if it ain't broke don't fix it" applys and if it works for you and your tank...........

There's another old addage that I have found that applys to this hobby "There's more than one way to skin the proverbial feline."

As I read posts, I try to take a piece of information here and there and make it work for me and by the same token give a piece of information that somebody might be able to take and make work for them. I just try to walk middle of the road and remember that any of my suggestions could be an absolute no-no as far as reef tanks go. If that happens, hopefully somebody will alert me and I can correct my technique.

Anne

[Reefland]

Originally Posted by j_man

I had read several articles stating that you should disturb portions of the sand bed. I do it when I am cleaning, the detrius. From the research it shows disturbed beds hold more life then one that is never touched. The mix was based on actual granular sizes found at different reefs located around the world.

In minor amounts a little stirring can be good to stir up natural food from the sand bed. Heavy amounts of stirring can significantly impact the biological filter in the sand bed so it is best to not stir at all.

Do you have any links to those articles? I would like to read them if you do. Here is "the" link to sand bed information:
http://www.rshimek.com/reef/sediment.htm

[yankeebobo]

I don't touch the sand bed. There is about 4" in there. But this thread goes to show that everyone has their own practice.

One important thing to note would probably be that if you stir it up regularly, and it works, go ahead. But DO NOT go from being the type to leave it undisturbed for a long period to becoming one that stirs the entire bed. The balance will be tipped.

[vtec si]

This is a QUOTE by Richard Harker (Marine Fish and Reef USA) 2002 annual!

More recently,some hobbyist have advocated the use of thicker sand bed, in some cases up to a foot. The anecdotal evdence supporting a deeper bed is far from conclusive! He also states that given there is strong evidence that a 2" sand bed is more valuble in a reef tank than one with more sand than that and the evidence is weak on deeper sand bed. Hobbyists should have sand beds in their tank but that there is no need for more than 2" wich would cause the ant farm look. I have used the 4" system and it seem to work for me. I do agree that when you have a deep sand bed of 4+ inches that it can look like a "ant farm" but I did not mind. I thought it was neat to see all the life in the sand.
He also states that the substrate around coral reefs varies from "predominantly very fine sand" in low currents to large gravel pieces in surge zones. "Because most hobbyists should emulate areas around patch reefs and flat reefs, we should look to the substrates in these areas to guide our selection of sand for our reef tanks, in these areas, medium sized grains predominate at the surface, with a higher proportion of finer sands deeper below the surface.

This is what I did in my own 180 when I had it set up. I used 3 1/2" ESV oolitic given to me by my good friend Spasse. for the last 1/2" I used a mix of Carib-Sea and crushed coral. I took R.Harker advice but used it in a DSB of 4"! I worked for me with no ill affects nor did any of my critters seem to mind, as I had sand sifting stars, cerith snail, cucumbers, ect,ect.

But as stated before what works for me, my not for you!

[My2heartboys]

Originally Posted by vtec si

This is a QUOTE by Richard Harker (Marine Fish and Reef USA) 2002 annual!

More recently,some hobbyist have advocated the use of thicker sand bed, in some cases up to a foot. The anecdotal evdence supporting a deeper bed is far from conclusive! He also states that given there is strong evidence that a 2" sand bed is more valuble in a reef tank than one with more sand than that and the evidence is weak on deeper sand bed. Hobbyists should have sand beds in their tank but that there is no need for more than 2" wich would cause the ant farm look. I have used the 4" system and it seem to work for me. I do agree that when you have a deep sand bed of 4+ inches that it can look like a "ant farm" but I did not mind. I thought it was neat to see all the life in the sand.
He also states that the substrate around coral reefs varies from "predominantly very fine sand" in low currents to large gravel pieces in surge zones. "Because most hobbyists should emulate areas around patch reefs and flat reefs, we should look to the substrates in these areas to guide our selection of sand for our reef tanks, in these areas, medium sized grains predominate at the surface, with a higher proportion of finer sands deeper below the surface.

This is what I did in my own 180 when I had it set up. I used 3 1/2" ESV oolitic given to me by my good friend Spasse. for the last 1/2" I used a mix of Carib-Sea and crushed coral. I took R.Harker advice but used it in a DSB of 4"! I worked for me with no ill affects nor did any of my critters seem to mind, as I had sand sifting stars, cerith snail, cucumbers, ect,ect.

But as stated before what works for me, my not for you!

I think your last statement is the key to this whole hobby--but it is fun sharing and maybe trying a little of what you read.

Anne