Bombarded by Elements

[GaryZ]

Ok, the big 4 are obviously:

pH
Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate

Once those are under control, the rest are have me scratching my head. Which is more important?

Calcium
Alkalinity
Boron
Iodine
Magnesium
Phosphate
Trace Elements
Strontium
Copper (bad news, I know)

Now that I have the big 4 under control, I would like to address the rest one by one. I'm gettin very confused. Is there an order of importance here? I've gathered that Calcium and Alkalinity are pretty important. But what about the rest? Iodine seems pretty key too. Any insight would be appreciated.

[vtec si]

This all depends on what you plan to keep! Reef, sps, lps, softies, fish, inverts,ect,ect??

Martin

[GaryZ]

Well, I've been reading Reefkeeping Mag online all night. I found an Alchemy article that has been very helpful. Like everything else, alot of seems pretty debateable. But I just felt way behind on the parameters knowledge.

To answer you question, I plan on keeping mostly softies and LPS's for starters, maybe working my way up to stonies.

[vtec si]

I tested and dosed for Ca, Alk, Iodine and sometimes Mg. on my Lps and softies.

Martin

[Ninong]

Ok, the big 4 are obviously:

pH

pH will fluctuate daily. Ideally you would want to keep it between 8.1-8.4. It's not a good idea to let it fall below 7.8 or rise above 8.6.

Ammonia

Should be undetectable with cheapy hobbyist test kits.

Nitrite

Should be undetectable and certainly no higher than 0.1 ppm.

Nitrate

For an SPS dominated reef aquarium, nitrate should be less than 5 ppm (ideally less than 2 ppm). For a mixed reef, it should be below 15 ppm (ideally below 10 ppm). For a FOWLR aquarium it should be below 40 ppm but most fish can tolerate levels several times higher than this.

Calcium

Should be at least NSW value of 410 ppm. Most people prefer to maintain calcium a little higher than NSW values. I like to keep it in a range between 425-475 ppm. Anything below 375 ppm is not ideal and anything above 500 ppm is not a good idea either.

Alkalinity

Should be at least NSW level of 7 dKH. It would be safer to run it at least 8-10 dKH. I prefer a range of 10-12 dKH. Some SPS experts prefer a range of 12-14 dKH but this is the exception and only advisable if you have the right equipment and the right setup. To convert to mEq/l, just divide by 2.8.

Boron

NSW boron is ~4.4 ppm and there is no reason to maintain it higher than that. In fact, it is harmful at levels double NSW. Unfortunately, at least one salt manufacturer adds extra boron. Boron should not be depleted in your tank and there is no reason to be concerned about it unless you have it at elevated levels. Typical hobbyist boron test kits are unreliable.

Iodine

NSW value is 0.06 ppm total iodine. There is no reason to maintain iodine any higher than this. I have NEVER added iodine and yet I have never measured less than 0.06 ppm. My usual test result is 0.20 ppm. All of the iodine in my tank is coming by way of the food I feed the fish. Excessive iodine is toxic. You should not add iodine unless you are sure your iodine levels in your tank are deficient and this is highly unlikely if you have fish in your tank that you are feeding.

Magnesium

NSW magnesium is ~1290 ppm. This is the value you want to shoot for. I wouldn't be too concerned unless it drops below 1000 ppm. Also, I see no reason to maintain it any higher than 1350 ppm. If you use limewater for calcium and alkalinity maintenance, you will need to add magnesium every now and then. MgCl is the better way to do this but you can also use epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) occasionally as long as you don't overdo it and raise your sulfate levels too high.

Phosphate

Should be kept as low as possible, ideally below 0.03 ppm. Anything above 0.10 ppm is not a good idea and anything above 0.25 ppm will cause problems.

Trace Elements

Which "trace elements?" There several dozen trace elements in seawater and there is no need to add any of them. In fact, most of them are contained in the salt mixes at levels MUCH HIGHER than natural seawater values.

Strontium

NSW strontium is ~8-9 ppm. I wouldn't add strontium unless I was sure that it was less than 5 ppm in my tank. And since there are no reliable strontium test kits, I have never tested for strontium and therefore I have never added it. There are no studies that I know of that claim that strontium is actually needed for anything. It is just there! Excessive strontium interferes with calcium deposition in corals and retards growth just as excessive strontium in the blood leads to malformed bones in humans. It is too close chemically to calcium.

Copper (bad news, I know)

Copper must be undetectable. In fact, hobby test kits cannot measure copper in the low ppb range and yet it is toxic to most invertebrates in that range. NSW value for copper is 0.09 ppb!

Now that I have the big 4 under control, I would like to address the rest one by one. I'm gettin very confused. Is there an order of importance here? I've gathered that Calcium and Alkalinity are pretty important. But what about the rest? Iodine seems pretty key too. Any insight would be appreciated.

The only thing you really need to maintain is calcium and alkalinity. You should check your magnesium levels every few months (unless you are running a calcium reactor) just to see where they are and add magnesium, if necessary, to maintain levels close to NSW values.

You should never add anything unless you are sure that you need it. This is especially true of iodine and strontium. Don't believe all the hype put out by the people who make a comfortable living selling magic potions and "trace element" additives. And don't believe everything you read in hobby literature, especially if the author also sells the additives he recommends.

In general, you want your water parameters to be as close as possible to NSW values. The only parameters that you might want to maintain a little higher than NSW levels are calcium and alkalinity.

[vtec si]

Ninong to the rescue!

Where you a chemist in another life?! JK!

Martin

[Ninong]

Ninong to the rescue!

Where you a chemist in another life?! JK!

Martin

No, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

And I did take two years of college chemistry half a century ago.

[Reefland]

I think there are 2 other big ones you missed, Temperature and Salinity.

After you have temp, salinity, pH, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate under control, you should get your calcium and alkalinity balanced and not worry about the rest, in my opinion.

[GaryZ]

I just tested my alkalinity, it's off.

According to Salifert:

KH value-11.5
Alk-4.11


I couldn't find a Salifert Calcium test today. I'll try and pick one up tomorrow.

[Reefland]

That's not off, that is a good results, especially if your Calcium is around 425 or so.

[GaryZ]

Well, according to Salifert, natural seawater is 2.9 on Alk.

The article I'm reading says that it pretty much depends on where my calcium is sitting. Guess I won't know for sure till I get my Calcium test tomorrow.

[Reefland]

It does since they both work together. A calcium of 425-450 and alk of 11dKH would be just fine in my book.

[GaryZ]

BTW, I bought a little polyp colony today. I couldn't resist. Little colony with about 30 polyps, 3 little fan worms, and 2 big fan worms for $20.00. Plus I picked up a cure piece of LR with a little star polyp colony on it. See how it goes.

[GaryZ]

It does since they both work together. A calcium of 425-450 and alk of 11dKH would be just fine in my book.

Thats very cool. I hope my calcium is where it should be. I wish Meijer sold Salifert.

[My2heartboys]

pH will fluctuate daily. Ideally you would want to keep it between 8.1-8.4. It's not a good idea to let it fall below 7.8 or rise above 8.6.



Should be undetectable with cheapy hobbyist test kits.



Should be undetectable and certainly no higher than 0.1 ppm.



For an SPS dominated reef aquarium, nitrate should be less than 5 ppm (ideally less than 2 ppm). For a mixed reef, it should be below 15 ppm (ideally below 10 ppm). For a FOWLR aquarium it should be below 40 ppm but most fish can tolerate levels several times higher than this.



Should be at least NSW value of 410 ppm. Most people prefer to maintain calcium a little higher than NSW values. I like to keep it in a range between 425-475 ppm. Anything below 375 ppm is not ideal and anything above 500 ppm is not a good idea either.



Should be at least NSW level of 7 dKH. It would be safer to run it at least 8-10 dKH. I prefer a range of 10-12 dKH. Some SPS experts prefer a range of 12-14 dKH but this is the exception and only advisable if you have the right equipment and the right setup. To convert to mEq/l, just divide by 2.8.



NSW boron is ~4.4 ppm and there is no reason to maintain it higher than that. In fact, it is harmful at levels double NSW. Unfortunately, at least one salt manufacturer adds extra boron. Boron should not be depleted in your tank and there is no reason to be concerned about it unless you have it at elevated levels. Typical hobbyist boron test kits are unreliable.



NSW value is 0.06 ppm total iodine. There is no reason to maintain iodine any higher than this. I have NEVER added iodine and yet I have never measured less than 0.06 ppm. My usual test result is 0.20 ppm. All of the iodine in my tank is coming by way of the food I feed the fish. Excessive iodine is toxic. You should not add iodine unless you are sure your iodine levels in your tank are deficient and this is highly unlikely if you have fish in your tank that you are feeding.



NSW magnesium is ~1290 ppm. This is the value you want to shoot for. I wouldn't be too concerned unless it drops below 1000 ppm. Also, I see no reason to maintain it any higher than 1350 ppm. If you use limewater for calcium and alkalinity maintenance, you will need to add magnesium every now and then. MgCl is the better way to do this but you can also use epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) occasionally as long as you don't overdo it and raise your sulfate levels too high.



Should be kept as low as possible, ideally below 0.03 ppm. Anything above 0.10 ppm is not a good idea and anything above 0.25 ppm will cause problems.



Which "trace elements?" There several dozen trace elements in seawater and there is no need to add any of them. In fact, most of them are contained in the salt mixes at levels MUCH HIGHER than natural seawater values.



NSW strontium is ~8-9 ppm. I wouldn't add strontium unless I was sure that it was less than 5 ppm in my tank. And since there are no reliable strontium test kits, I have never tested for strontium and therefore I have never added it. There are no studies that I know of that claim that strontium is actually needed for anything. It is just there! Excessive strontium interferes with calcium deposition in corals and retards growth just as excessive strontium in the blood leads to malformed bones in humans. It is too close chemically to calcium.



Copper must be undetectable. In fact, hobby test kits cannot measure copper in the low ppb range and yet it is toxic to most invertebrates in that range. NSW value for copper is 0.09 ppb!



The only thing you really need to maintain is calcium and alkalinity. You should check your magnesium levels every few months (unless you are running a calcium reactor) just to see where they are and add magnesium, if necessary, to maintain levels close to NSW values.

You should never add anything unless you are sure that you need it. This is especially true of iodine and strontium. Don't believe all the hype put out by the people who make a comfortable living selling magic potions and "trace element" additives. And don't believe everything you read in hobby literature, especially if the author also sells the additives he recommends.

In general, you want your water parameters to be as close as possible to NSW values. The only parameters that you might want to maintain a little higher than NSW levels are calcium and alkalinity.

Ninong, I basically agree with you. While, I run my tank a little different, I know that each has his or her own way of doing it. The only other supplement I would recommend be administered at least on a monthly basis on a light bioload and on a heavier bioload I would do it according to the bottle. That would be just a good general vitamin supplement (I don't sell any, so I will not put any name brands on this post).

Most people would disagree with me on this, but I strongly encourage you to do what works for you and your tank inhabitants. Just one word of warning from this corner and it is a lesson I am having a hard time learning DON'T OVER FEED YOUR TANK (unless you want to fight neverending algae problems).

Anne

[Reefland]

Can anyone say "Triple Competitor Coupon Days".

[GaryZ]

Can anyone say "Triple Competitor Coupon Days".

...Was it a bad purchase?

[GaryZ]

Ninong, I basically agree with you. While, I run my tank a little different, I know that each has his or her own way of doing it. The only other supplement I would recommend be administered at least on a monthly basis on a light bioload and on a heavier bioload I would do it according to the bottle. That would be just a good general vitamin supplement (I don't sell any, so I will not put any name brands on this post).

Most people would disagree with me on this, but I strongly encourage you to do what works for you and your tank inhabitants. Just one word of warning from this corner and it is a lesson I am having a hard time learning DON'T OVER FEED YOUR TANK (unless you want to fight neverending algae problems).

Anne

Thanks for the advice, I think I've been doing really well at not over-feeding. It is hard, but I've heard (read) about so many algae problems, I'm resisiting the urge.

[inwall75]

No...if your chemistry is balanced, it probably wasn't provided you have researched it properly.

It is a great idea to match NSW as much a possible. There are a LOT of supplements on the market that are completely useless. I won't speak for Reefland (and please correct me if I'm wrong). However, my guess would be that he is addressing the purchasing of many non-needed supplements/additives.

My2heartboys,

This is an EXPENSIVE hobby. One way to make it cheaper is to be real careful about what you buy. We don't need 99.99% of the additives on the market. The truth is that we all have a humongous bioload when compared to nature. If you have one clown goby in a 2 million gallon tank, it might be comparable. (Numbers COMPLETELY pulled out the air to make a point).

[GaryZ]

Can anyone say "Triple Competitor Coupon Days".

I was wondering if this was in reference to me buying a little polyp colony with a few fan worms in it. I was hoping it wasn't a bad purchase, for some reason. I felt reasonably sure that my system is ready.

As far as supplements go, I haven't used any yet, nor do I plan to. My tank appears very healthy ATM, with natural filtration (refusium with LR and algae and a sump with MM and more algae). I managed to get this far without additives, though I have been tempted.


BTW, I do have a decent skimmer too.