No Luck with Dwarf Angels

[bguile]

Alright, I'm beginning to think I'm cursed. In the past 6 months I have probably purchased 5 or 6 dwarf angels of different types and only one is alive today. Is there something I'm missing somewhere? I have tried some type of QT for all of them except the only one living...a coral beauty. I believe highly in quarintine after having an ich outbreak a few months back, but it seems to be killing all of my angels.

Just to recount the last couple of deaths, I had a flame angel die during hypo with some type of internal bloating, a lemonpeel died after a freshwater dip for ~3.5min and moving him to the display, another two Nox angels died during hypo one maybe due to low pH and the other during hypo which became unresponsive and not eating, and another lemonpeel that just seemed to be in distress. I've searched all over the internet looking for reasons why this is happening. What am I doing wrong? Is there something I'm missing about dwarf angels that they can't endure these "normal" practices? In fact, it has seemed that the only living fish I have are the one's that I've dropped right in the display. I've learned to closely monitor my ammonia and pH during QT, but I still lost the last Nox that way. The water in my QT is just fine as my most prized fish (Hippo Tang) is still in it (which by the way I was very hesitant to do, based on the track record. I have lost 2 other tangs during QT.) Someone please help!!!

[Ninong]

Why did you subject your dwarf angels to hyposalinity? Did they have ich when you got them?

The purpose of quarantine is to observe new fish. There is no need to "treat" them in quarantine unless you observe something that requires treatment. You shouldn't treat them prophylactically with something as potentially stressful as hyposalinity. Not all fish handle hyposalinity equally well. When it is used to treat ich, care must be taken to gradually lower the salinity over a period of at least several hours. Then after three weeks at the lowered salinity (1.009-1.010 SG), you should allow at least two or three days to gradually increase the salinity back to normal.

I lost a flame angel (Centropyge loriculus) due to paint fumes near the tank on a day when I was away from home. I replaced it with a coral beauty (C. bispinosa) that I have had for about a year now.

[Reefland]

I agree, you should run your Q tank with normal parameters and use it to observe newcomers. Only when a problem is noticed should you use the Q tank to treat with, whatever method, you are comfortable with using.

[bguile]

Thanks guys for the replys. I purchased a Nox and had decided to do a hypo treatment as a "just in case". I figured since I was doing hypo, I placed the Tang in the QT also since he had tomites on him. I hadn't seen anything before that discouraged using hypo as an initial treatment so I figured it couldn't hurt. I was careful to do it properly according to the document on how to do it that was placed in one of my earlier posts; lowering the salinity to 1.009 over 72 hours. This last time I was even learned enough to monitor closely pH drops, but had become discouraged in the method after losing the Nox. I've only seen information about how some fish react to copper. Is there any documented information out there that details which fish don't do well with hypo? Because if these fish don't do well with hypo (my preferred method over Cu), how do you treat them if they have ich and Cu could be just as harmful?

[Ninong]

Some fish tolerate hyposalinity better than others just as some fish tolerate freshwater baths better than others. Generally speaking, damselfish (which includes clownfish) tolerate such procedures better than say dwarf angelfish or butterflyfish.

I wouldn't do either copper or hyposalinity simply as a prophylactic. And yes, copper is risky because of its long term effects on the immune system and the reproductive system.

[dougc]

I tried hypo with butterflies and I don't think they handled it well. I lost 2 of 3 to what appeared to be secondary infections, but I now think that the hypo was just too stressful for them and they succumbed to infections that they otherwise would have shrugged off. Although copper has its problems, I'm not sure hypo is much better. In reality, QT seems to function best as a way to avoid introducing parasites and diseases to an established tank. For the most part, I have had little luck treating sick saltwater fish.

[bguile]

It's interesting that you would say that DougC, until just then I don't think I've ever read a post of someone losing a fish using hyposalinity. They had always blamed it on some illness or infection. I guess no one wants to admit that they've just put their money to the wind and at the same time caused the death of a living animal. I'm a pretty upbeat guy so when people saw me this morning in church I was kinda subdued and they picked up on it right away. Losing a fish to hypo and another one to a FW dip within 12 hours will do that to you.