[golfish]

Hey all,
Do you think its possible to run too much at one time and what would the effects be?

[kevinpo]

Hi There!
I don't think you can run too much carbon in a simulated clear water reef. Running carbon (phosphate free) results in very clear water with great light penetration. I have seen a whole tank of Acropora corals turn brown when carbon was added to the tank. This was the result in of the sudden increase of light intensity due to the removal of the yellow tint from the water. It took about 90 days for them to return to thier full color. Growth also increased.

Regards,
Kevin

[golfish]

Thanks Kevin,
That's kind of what I thought. Its been a tough two years with this tank and it looks like things aren't going to get any better. I started up an ozone generator about 6 weeks ago and I'm using 3-4 cups of carbon off the ozone reactor. I did a carbon change about 12 days ago and since that time I've lost about 6 colonies due to RTN. Most of those colonies were brown or bleached out due to my bad luck with this tank. I was running Zeovit before the ozone so the water has always been very clear, seems even more clear when running Zeo. I found out last weel I have acro eating flat worms, but then I'm about 90% sure I've always had them, plus my corals are covered with red bugs, but those never seemed to bother my corals very much.

I tell ya, I'm about ready to turn this tank into an LPS tank.

[Papa Doug]

Originally Posted by golfish

I tell ya, I'm about ready to turn this tank into an LPS tank.

Already ahead of you Mark. The new 180, will be mostly just that.

[j_man]

The problem with carbon is there is no such thing as "phosphate free" All carbon has phosphate and what you are looking for is lowest detectable amounts of leachable phosphate. Most regular carbon does leach small amounts of phosphates but not enough to out way the good carbon does for the whole system. Especially systems that may mix leathers with stonies. I would suggest using matrix carbon. Matrix carbon has been tested by an individual testing labratory and has been deemed to have the lowest possible leaching of phosphates. I also tested it against the big brands and found it to be true. It is also large and spherical so it doesn't pack and trap foods to elevate nitrates.

[inwall75]

I've never used Matrix carbon before. I've been extremely happy with Black Diamond. However, with any carbon (even the cheap ones), you will remove most of the leachable phosphates by rinsing and then soaking for 24 hours in RO/DI water. This is even recommended by Calgon Carbon who manufactures a huge portion of the carbon sold in America.

In addition to removing phosphates, the RO/DI soak deaerates the carbon as well which is extremely important.

In liquid applications, why is it important to deaerate (fully wet) the carbon?
A container of carbon is roughly 20% carbon, 40% interstitial space (the volume between the carbon granules), and 40% pore volume (the volume inside the carbon granules). If air remains in the pore volume, the fluid being treated cannot migrate to the adsorption sites. The air becomes a barrier to the carbon functioning properly.

http://www.calgoncarbon.com/resources/faqs.cfm#six

PS....anyone who is curious about carbon should read that page. It goes into a detailed, yet simple, explanation of carbon.

[golfish]

Originally Posted by j_man

The problem with carbon is there is no such thing as "phosphate free" All carbon has phosphate and what you are looking for is lowest detectable amounts of leachable phosphate. Most regular carbon does leach small amounts of phosphates but not enough to out way the good carbon does for the whole system. Especially systems that may mix leathers with stonies. I would suggest using matrix carbon. Matrix carbon has been tested by an individual testing labratory and has been deemed to have the lowest possible leaching of phosphates. I also tested it against the big brands and found it to be true. It is also large and spherical so it doesn't pack and trap foods to elevate nitrates.

I use a Hannah Colorimeter for PO4 testing..I've never found a test kit that I can trust. PO4's are not a problem..we're talking major problems with this tank, like built over an ancient Indian burial ground.

Doug, just think we can dump those 400 watt MH's and run VHO's

[Papa Doug]

Originally Posted by golfish

Doug, just think we can dump those 400 watt MH's and run VHO's

T-5,s better. Actually I,m going to run a single 400w Iwasaki high over the center ofmy 180 cube.

I have always used Black Diamond carbon also. Long ago, I used another popular carbon, {perhaps its better now}. I swear the dust from it, despite rinsing, caused HLLE in my sailfin. I once talked with a well know US author on the phone and he knew what carbon it was before I told him and said ne seen the same results.

I have never used more than a cup at a time, so the 4 your using, seems like a fair bit. However the only bleaching problems I have heard of, is from making the water clear to fast and excess dust. Neither seems to be yours. Perhaps it just a coincedence from the other problems.

Seems to me, several top notch aquarists having acro problems lately. Mine was an alk. issue, in regards to the salt I was using and some of my well water.

[golfish]

Doug,
I've been using BD carbon and still do. Last week I bought a 55 pound bag from a group buy put together at RC (So Cal forum). I loaned my PO4 meter out to Roland (old yeller tang) so I haven't been able to check it yet. PO4's are the least of my problems.

Keeping sps has changed a lot in the past 5 years. Most of the local old timers I know are getting out or having the same issues I'm having. It was a huge mistake not to keep my old tank when we moved. I should have just moved the tank and kept everything rather then have my buddy hold my corals, that has proven to be a big BOO BOO. He lost 80-90% of them due to acro eating flat worms and the few I got back must have been effected with them even tho I couldn't find em.

This will also be the last inwall tank I ever setup unless the room behind the tank is huge with lots of windows and or access to the outdoors. I can't wait till my oldest daughter moves out (cough,leach,cough,speeding tickets,cough,lazy,cough,go back to school or get the hec out, cough) Then I'll have all the room I need to start over with a new tank.

I like your idea, in fact that was the plan here before my wife came up with the in wall tank idea (shoot me, please) My plan was a 36"x36"x24" tank with a single 1000 watt Radium. The 400 watt saki probably puts out as much PPFD\PAR as the 1000 watt Radium.

[Papa Doug]

Yes, I hear you there regarding moving, Mark. Thats when all my problems started with alk. and with flatworms from someone else,s rock.

Actually, I like the inwall which will allow me to run the 400w pendant fairly high, with no residual light,{except in the fishroom. But then mine is a fair bit large than your current one.

[AvianMan]

Originally Posted by kevinpo

...... the removal of the yellow tint from the water. It took about 90 gays for them to return to thier full color. Growth also increased.

Regards,
Kevin

I don't even know 5 gays, let alone 90! You'd have to go to some kind of a convention for that, I suppose.....

(sorry, couldn't resist)

I've never heard of carbon causing any bleaching concerns, so Id look elsewhere for the cause of that. Personally, I use carbon only occasionally (this means I don't change it nearly enough, LOL) and when I do, it's Black Diamond. It's good or better quality, but more important, it's readily available.

[kevinpo]

Hi Mark,
Very sorry to hear about your coral troubles. I think it would be best to start over. I know it sounds drastic (but so is getting out of the hobby). It really can be fun to build up your collection and try some new things. I can send you enough corals to fill your tank from cuttings from my home tank. I haven't added anything to it in years. It is free from any unwanted hitchhikers. You also might end up with a few corals that the locals don't have
If you don't have a connection to get some new rock I can probably hook you up with some Kaeleni through PAF in LA. for about $3/lb.

Besides maintaining the magnesium, alkalinity, and calcium I don't do anything else for my home tank. I believe in the KISS method plus I don't really have the time to mess with it

Well at least you have another option now.

Best regards,
Kevin

[golfish]

Thanks Kevin, I tell ya, I'm just about ready to start over. Thanks for the kind offer, I'll probably take you up on it. I'd say 80% of the tanks around here are infected with the acro eating flat worms, it wont be long till that number is 100%. Some guys I know are starting to setup QT tanks for all their sps (what's this world coming too).

Writing this post reminds me that I have to drop some drums off to Nathan. He asked me a few weeks ago to get him some and I forgot all about it.

You have a PM