[reptilicus]

icemark,
now THAT is an unbelievable tank! Very natural looking, I like it a lot! Very interesting shape, very natural appearance. I like their use of macroalgae in the main display tank, looks very natural.

srgtkoons, what you say is interesting. I have actually felt the same way, except the other way around I've felt that many US tanks I've seen do not appeal to me. There are exceptions, John Susbilla's tank is one that springs to mind....but on the whole I find many US tanks "boring". Some of these Japanese tanks are great, particularly the aforementioned one and the first one that was shown. However, personally my favourite tanks are some of those Euro tanks. As you say, I cannot quite explain why I find US tanks boring. I have a few theories. One is that many people in the US seem to like to have a "collection of corals" rather than a "reef" as such. Looking at reefs in Europoe, this does not seem to be so much the case. For example, there is a write up in Fossa and Nilsen about a tank in Norway that experienced a mass-spawning of stony corals in 1994. This tank is not a "riot of colour", but rather a very delicate but attractive contrast of shapes and colours. This is not to say that it is not a colourful tank, but there is not this huge mix of brightly coloured soft, hard, and LPS corals. I dive on the GBR semi-regularly and have dived other coral reefs around the world. I must say that the majority of US tanks look nothing like what I see down there. Of course, this is just my personal preference, but I like my systems to simulate as closely as possible a natural reef. I will decide before setting up my system a particular reef environment which I will try to simulate, and then from there I will set up the environmental factors accordingly. I will then go on to collecting the biota, but again, I will only collect specimens found in the zone I am replicating. This means, in my current system, I have many SPS, but very few LPS and soft corals. Also, I believe it is contrast of colour and shape of the specimens which make the appeal of a reef tank. To me, a bright blue Acropora nana, a fluoro green purple tipped Catalaphyllia, and neon green Nepthya, a green Euphyllia, some pink Xenia and a red open brain do not make a nice display. It is just too unnatural, and it is too much like a "coral collection" rather than a reef. I would rather have a tank full of Acropora only, with just subtle variations of brown, blue, purple, pink, and cream.
Again, this is just my opinion, but it is an interesting subject. Just thought I'd comment on it while the subject came up. What's other people's thoughts?
Regards,
Tom

[reptilicus]

Surely someone must have thoughts on this! Come on, speak up, I'm interested to hear what you all think!
Regards,
Tom

[ravenmore]

I love these tanks. From a practical stand point they show that you don't need as much rock and in fact less rock can be more aesthetically pleasing. I think the 1 to 2 lb of lr/gallon rule is a bit overkill.

On the better looking tanks, it seems that they arrange their lr in two asymetrical "clumps" that are slightly off center. Lot of sand area. Also, I've noticed they have no top brace or trim on the tanks. I love the look but have to wonder at the structural integrity of it. I love the ones in the first post and the one posted by icemark.....makes me want a deeper tank - again.

-Mike

[reptilicus]

Ravenmore, you too have made some interesting points. The use of "shallower tanks" also seems something wdespread in the US, whereas "deeper taks" are much more common amongst Europeans and of course Japanese. I love the deeper tanks as I feel with a deeper tank you can create many more miniature environments and and hence increase the diversity of species. My new tank I got recently is 3x2x2, and I love this shape. I got this tank with no centre brace, and have seen much larger tanks with no centre brace. The structural integrity of the tank can be maintained if designed a built properly. Even my tank, with it's relatively modest capacity in the overall scheme of things, was specially reinforced so as not to include a centre brace. And Christ, what a difference it makes! I love it.
Regards,
Tom

[Biomanjcs72]

I too, love the look of these tanks and I admire their depth and arrangement, but I still want to know what the requirements are of a "Japanese Format" reef tank. I have figured out the basics (Asymetry, depth, more sand area, etc.) But I want to know how they do it and why.....

[ravenmore]

I guess by "deeper" I meant wider, front to back.

They just appear to be very visually "balanced" - the ammount of positve and negative space compliment each other nicely.

Their approach to the whole thing is different. Let's take live rock, for instance. In the western world we've come up with a formula of 1 to 2 lbs of lr/gallon. So, going in, we're hell bent for leather to cram that ammount of rock in the tank. We end up with a wall of rubble virtually filling up all the negative space of the tank. What I've seen of the nicer Japanese tanks - they only put in enough rock to build nice looking formations and to balance the negative space visually. Sorry for the esoteric terminolgy - it's a little hard to explain. I took a lot of 2d and 3d design in college and that's the best I can do....

-Mike

[SPasse]

Hi All,

There are many aspects of these tanks that I really like:

Symmetry, sparing use of life rock, color selection and coordination etc.

There avoidance of the “wall-o-rock” has system benefits far beyond aesthetics.

But the total lack of calcareous algae on the glass, puzzled me until I talked a Japanese reefer about this a while back.

They consider calcareous algae anywhere other than on the live rock to be undesirable. How you would keep the top layer of a DSB from becoming coated with calcareous algae is something to think about.

And their substrate certainly doesn’t appear to be any kind of “live DSB”

Japanese fresh water plant tanks are also a sight to behold. (But that’s another discussion)

Regards,

Scott

[icemark]

If my wife had it her way, my tanks would not have any calcareous algae anywhere but on the rock as well. Sounds like a lotta work to me.

I rather like the picture I posted and several others. Since I am in the process of re-doing my 60 gal there are a couple of the ideas of layout that the Japanese tanks have that I am planning to integrate.

Such as the idea that the rock can extend to the top of the tank, and the lack of the standard rock display wall.

I was thinking even of my new overflow (I was going to drill the tank anyway for one) instead of being on the back wall of the tank, that I would be covering it up with rockwork and making it into a piller of rock that goes all the way to the surface simular to that picture I posted.

I agree I much prefer that natural look, as reptilicus mentions, but I think many of the US tanks have the rock wall look because that is what we have seen in pictures or in limited diving. Yes we have reefs, but nothing like I have seen in the carib or hawaii.

[ConnieH]

Scubadude,

Glad you received so many of the Japanese tank photos. The two I had were the 1st one you posted, and the one from icemark. Apologies for that link, from what they said on the phone... the server in Wisconsin was hit by the recent storms.

So have you decided on a design? I'd love to see a pic once you get your tank (re?)aquascaped! Email me?

Nice photos Everyone! Thanks for sharing all your beautiful pictures.

Best of luck Scubadude,
Connie

P.S. The structural support around the parameter of the tank, in lieu of a center brace is called "combing." The tank we're having built will have combing. The price of the lateral, or "rim" bracing is an additional 7% of the cost of the tank. Worth every dime!

[scubadude]

No big deal Connie

Im sure it wont be any time soon that I reaquascape my tank....there are many things that I have to take into consideration. First off I think I want a bigger tank My 90gal is great but I would like to go with a 180+ and if I do that I might just wait cuz my 90 has alot of rock in it now (approximately140-160lbs) so If i got a 180gal I dont think I would get any more rock...I would just transfer it all over from my 90gal and that would be all the rock I would use. The next step is talking the wife into letting me do this. This is the only way I could do something like this unless i sell some of my rock in my tank now

[Reinhold]

The Japanese seem to apply many of the principles of Bonzai to their reefs. The asymmetry, triangular shapes, stark sand beds and realism all harken from the Bonzai philosophy, which is thousands of years old.

I really like the "boulder" approach to the LR placement, rather than the typical US "wall" approach. I wish I'd seen these photos before I placed my LR. I like the clean, algae-free appearance as well, and I wish I knew how they accomplished this.

[FishKid]

Recently to be good there is a word which is called to the word which in conversation of the aqua list is made the ear, the Berlin system. When it makes the Berlin system, it reached the point where the coral is brought up well, and so on only the good story where the moss became unable to excessively grow, makes the ear, but it probably is the basket knowing which concretely is what kind of system? From this time it keeps explaining simply in the series concerning this Berlin system. If you can adopt this system to also the aquarium of everyone, the true nature it is splendid, you think it can realize the beauty of the coral. (98.11.24 renewals) Concerning nitrogen cycle as for the artificial filter there is no necessity? Protein opening - with? As for frequency of water changing? The calcium addition the sea tweet the addition saturation lime water of the procedure calcium of selection necessary instrument installation of the ?§ female ‚é Berlin system tank (the kalkwasser) with with firm The Berlin system, speaking simply, -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- concerning nitrogen cycle living thing filtration and nitrogen disintegration with the system which depends on the live lock, base filtration and wet / as for the filter of dry all not using, as for the organic matter the protein opening - with it is the system which is removed. It is well utilized to reproducing the ecosystem itself of the natural sea in the small tank. The nitrogenous substance which is nutrition amount at the time of the healthy ecosystem where balance comes off, changes shape in entire ecosystem through the renewal activity of lower animal such as invertebrata, protozoan and bacterium from high animal, such as fish keeps circulating. In the Berlin system making use of the nitrogen cycle of this ecosystem, living thing filtration is done. Organic nutrient of the fish and the ammonia et cetera which is excreted from the invertebrata is disassembled by nitrous acid first by the surface of the live lock and the renewal activity of the nitrification bacterium which lives in the surface of the live sand, next is disassembled to the nitrate. Being something whose virulence is very strong for the living thing of the aquarium it does, the ammonia and the nitrous acid, but as for the nitrate if the quantity is not many, virulence is not that much strong. If it is the sufficient tank which raises the fish, it is inside the tank there being a nitrate, that much, there is no influence, but if after all it keeps raising the coral, as for the nitrate as much as possible the one which was brought close to 0 the coral becomes vigorous, propagates well. This nitrate is restored by nitrogen gas by the counter nitrification bacterium which lives in repugnance layer inside the live lock and the lower stratum of the live sand, is discharged in the air. Balance of this nitrification bacterium and the counter nitrification bacterium comes off, cycle of the ammonia, the nitrous acid, the nitrate and the nitrogen gas to be good inside the tank which is circulating, the ammonia or is not almost detected the nitrous acid or the nitrate. Being the same as the sea of the natural world, you can call a state where it is possible to all living things inside the tank to take. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As for the artificial filter there is no necessity? After all, unless base filtration and wet you use until now / the sediment is removed with the filter of dry insecurity, with the one which is said it is more, probably will be. But, very these artificial filtration methods, it destroys the balance of natural nitrogen cycle, being to make maintenance more complicated, it does. While base filtration and wet / the nitrification bacterium is easy to propagate in large quantities in the filter of dry, there is a basic fault that it is not possible to propagate the counter nitrification bacterium. In the system which uses these filtration equipment for clarifying, as for the ammonia inside the tank oh with while saying, it is disassembled to nitrous acid and the nitrate by the mass nitrification bacterium, but because the quantity of the counter nitrification bacterium is not enough decisively, it is not possible to restore the nitrate which occurs in addition whatever kind of instrument is used and this because it is not possible, to remove, the inside of the tank becomes all the way with the nitrate, after all reaches to dangerous level. Being only to remove the nitrate with the water changing of month 1 time it does then. In addition, the case where the ammonia is disassembled the phosphoric acid occurs, but this because very not only it is harmful, it reaches nutrition amount of the moss for the coral, when disintegration happens quickly with the mass nitrification bacterium, the phosphoric acid occurs in large quantities not only the nitrate, the result tank does being to mean to be bothered in outbreak of the moss. While it is the large molecule where in the Berlin system, as for the feed and the droppings et cetera long time without being disassembled the protein opening - with you remove with the favor which is not the filtration equipment for clarifying vis-a-vis this inside the tank it stays, because at that time most openings - with it is removed, the nitrate or the phosphoric acid which follow afterwards almost do not occur. The protein opening - with the little ammonia which it cannot take is disassembled by the nitrate by the living thing and the nitrification bacterium which live in the live lock, is restored by the counter nitrification bacterium, almost completely close cycle completes. Because over long term the ammonia, the nitrous acid and the nitrate it is not detected inside the result tank, the water changing almost being there is no necessity, it does. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Protein opening - with? This with the very effective instrument, the amino acid, the fatty acid, the fat, removes various organic components and the non- organic component such as enzyme, vitamin and phosphoric acid by blowing the small bubble in the tube where the water enters, in addition to the ammonia. There is Sawayama's design and a type, but the counter current, it is divided into three types of venturi and down-draft mainly. There is also type of these combinations. When the protein opening - you call to function simply, " removal of the chronic organic matter " there is a use of two kinds " of coping to sudden accident ". " Removal of the chronic organic matter " is to remove the organic matter which the middle of the droppings of the living thing and remainder et cetera of the feed is always discharged quantitatively inside the tank. The feed which in the environment, tank which is closed, everyday is added is the lump of the organic matter of the considerable quantity, but you can eat this in the living thing and most organic matter being absorbed, as energy source of the living thing little remainder are discharged from the stage which it is digested is absorbed as the droppings. It is one member where also the fish and the other marine organisms bear the water quality purification of the seawater same as the filtration bacterium and the like, that way it is the case that it has changed the feed which becomes the cause of the mass soiling to extremely the little organic matter, as much as possible it can understand that it is important little to feed the remaining feed, you think. Very little, the origin of the soiling of the droppings and the remaining feed et cetera which are discharged into the tank if it is the usual living thing filtration system, changes the form into the nitrous acid and the nitrate directly with the filtration bacterium, but in the leaf tank of the Berlin style, before being disassembled to the bacterium, the protein opening - with àh it does and takes. The protein opening - the difference of ability, with, the opening where you remove - the opening whose ability is high - is to those of smaller molecular structure whether it is possible to the molecule whose some level is small, to remove. In the leaf tank, as for the nutrition salt which dissolves in the seawater in the basis whose it is important to maintain less, the opening whose ability is high because of that - it becomes quite effective equipment. The opening whose ability quite is high -, there is a fault that it is removed to the useful microelement in addition to organic matter such as remainder and droppings of the feed. In addition quite in the tank of the Berlin style which is stabilized nitrate level almost becomes zero states. A story that aforementioned olgotrophic conversion is the important basis of the leaf tank, being to contradict, it does, but the nitrate is one of important nutrition source to tell the truth for the coral and the software coral, the wealth nutrition where the water which is rich in the nutrition which flows out from the especially river flows into (the seawater whose nutrition salt such as nitric acid is many) as for the coral and the software coral which live in the sea area when completely it does not have the nitrate, losing weight in the long term, vigor is gone. To be large it can lift the nitrate and the phosphate, as the nutrition salt which inside the tank becomes problem recently it understood, but that it is important the nitrate to be good a little (approximately the 5mg/l) the one which is state of the living thing generally inside the tank, concerning the phosphate to maintain to the utmost little. In this kind of case the opening - it is possible short to make, according to need the seawater of wealth nutrition of the fish tank operating time to add with the method of saying to cope. Recently in the tank which is stabilized the protein opening - natural also the attempt which aims toward the tank has done all not using and everything in from the cycle of the ecosystem which by the fact that it depends on the water quality purification function of the living thing which begins the live lock, propagated the effective plankton, mixed the plankton. For example as for " coping to sudden accident " while traveling the ƒVƒƒƒRƒKƒC dying, it is coping to when e.g., it became corrupted inside the tank. As for water quality purification function of the live lock and the live sand, the filtration living thing propagates with the balance which is adjusted to the nutrition salt which always at fixed level exists inside the tank does the water quality purification which is stabilized chronically, but it cannot correspond to sudden load. Here becoming depending the protein opening - with, removes the origin of the soiling which increases suddenly in underwater steadily as the bubble. In this kind of case because the opening - the collection cup which is the saucer of the sewage becomes directly all the way, the opening - the type which can install the large-sized sewage receiving separately from the substance is effective. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As for frequency of water changing? If nutrition amount inside the tank is small, because either the little extent nitrate does not occur, frequency of the water changing decreases. If is the tank just of the coral, the nitrate 3 years

Like reading a law book, ehh?

mark

[Reinhold]

fishkid:

The internet translation programs until leave some bit to be desireable to the brainfood. References the moss and sodium water protein openings found I confused. Still, Japan speech can are refried beans and walleye pike difficulty.

[FishKid]

LMAO!!!

I translated most of that site, it makes about as much sense a senior citizen on opium

Jap FAQ :

1) It can have dispatching with even 1 individual? (2) Is the postage about which probably to catch? (3) After ordering, it probably is to reach with about which? (4) You can deliver time appointment? (5) You can reserve the organism which does not have stock? (6) The time when summer season is hot as for transport it probably is all right? (7) When the organism which arrives has died it probably is how it should have done? (8) Please teach the weight of each every size of the live lock. The FAQ raising know-how compilation (1) being to like to introduce the kind of mangrove, it does, but inserting in the tank of the seawater that way, it probably is all right? (2) Being to like to introduce the live lock, it does, but it probably is about some quantity should have been inserted? (3) Being to decide what in standard it does the grade of the live lock? (4) Please teach the manner of introduction to the tank of the organism which arrives. (5) It meaning that the star polyp does not open easily, it does, but. (6) The ƒEƒ~ƒLƒmƒR in the past to condition well opening, the place here stopped opening the polyp completely. Something is there a measure? (7) It stuck to the coral. How it should have done, is? (8) If there is a point of caution, concerning group the live lock please teach. The FAQ in addition (1) you can observe the C.P.Farm?



I dont think they understand each other either!

Mark

[icemark]

The other thing you have to remember on the translator programs that you are asking it to translate Kanji, not true Japanese.

[FishKid]

same difference

[reefaddict]

These tanks look nice.. but they do not look lived in!!

Perhaps they scarp thier glas everyday.. but how do they keep the sand so white? Chlorox?

Personnaly I think they are just quickly set up for the pictures. I would like to see some growth sequences of the same tank. The one alledged sequence, in front of the tiled background, does not look like the same setup from pic to pic at all.

[scubadude]

Besides Im gonn be aquascaping soon and Definately want this thread near by

[BlueWater]

Dude that tank is insane. What a beaut!

Anyone have a clue on how many gallons and the dimensions of that
thing are?