RED Slime Battle

[Jeff Haupert]

Last week we had a battle with red slime. Our advise before you treat is two fold:
1) Why? What is causing the outbreak?
2) Treatment plan.

Our Tank is a 65 Gallon with 12 gallons in the sump (Reef), 4.5 watts VHO 50% atinic and 50% 12,000k daylight. Water topoff was R/O from a local super market.

By the process of elimination we detirmined that the cause was from the R/O supply, basically the source was using a less effective membraine that tended to leave larger amoumts of trace elements and silicates in the water.

Note: The red slime broke out shortly after starting to use this water supply.

CURE: We now purchase our supply of R/O from our Marine aquarium store which is a certified higher quality and then dosed our tank with "Ultralife" Red slime remover. This required us to turn off the protien skimmer for 48hrs. After three days with NO additional treatments our red slime is 100% gone with no further groth in the past two weeks.

When you turn the protien skimmer back on you will get a large amount of clears watery foam for a day. this must be a reaction caused by the teatment.

No harm came to any of our "Soft corals" or fish, we do not have any stoney corals in our tank.
The coast of the product locally was $13.99.

[Jeff Haupert]

Last week should have been last month

[BubbaWPB]

Did it effect your ammonia, nitrite or nitrate? I had an ammonia spike after using the Red Slime Remover....

Good to hear your tank cleared up.

[Jeff Haupert]

No spikes at all. For me it was like a miracle cure.

The one additional thought is "how much water do you really have" in the tank. If you have a 65 gal tank with 60 to 70 lbs of "Live Rock" you need to treat based on the actual amount of water in the tank, not the tank size.

The product states that it is not harmful to the Boi-load in the tank.

[Ninong]

The product states that it is not harmful to the Boi-load in the tank.

The warnings on this product are carefully worded. Pay particular attention to what the warnings do NOT say. And notice that nowhere on the label does the manufacturer tell you exactly what the product is or how it works.

What is commonly called "red slime algae" is actually cyanobacteria. If you want to kill Cyanobacter, you would use an antibiotic. Personally, I prefer to avoid the use of antibiotics in a reef aquarium for obvious reasons.

From the ad for Red Slime Remover on a vendor's website:

Fast-acting Red Slime Remover works without harm

Notice that they are deliberately vague and non-specific here. Without harm to what? They don't say.

Red Slime Algae Remover

*Revolutionary powdered formula effectively removes red slime algae

*Works quickly without harming fish, invertebrates, or corals

*Great solution for aggressive nuisance slime algae growth

Now they tell you what it won't harm: fish, invertebrates, or corals. Notice that they say nothing about beneficial bacteria.

What exactly is "revolutionary" about this product? They don't say. To tell you the truth, I doubt that there is anything "revolutionary" about the product or the "powdered formula." This is nothing new.

They continue to call it an "algae remover," which is extremely misleading and untruthful. They call it a great solution for "aggressive nuisance slime algae growth," perpetuating misinformation.

Only when you click on the "more information" icon will you learn additional facts about this product provided by Drs. Foster & Smith, not the manufacturer. For instance, it "may affect pH and oxygen levels in aquarium." That tells you something right there about how it works.

Finally the vendor (not the manufacturer) tells you that "slime algae are a Cyanobacter species of bacteria and not true algae." Then I wonder why they don't call it that in the first place instead of continuing to confuse the issue in their ads? At the very end they tell you that "There are 'slime' treatments that will 'kill' the Cyanobacter (active ingredient is erythromycin), and in some cases, they will eliminate the slime. Remove the excess slime before treatment, and make sure the nitrate and phosphate levels are as low as possible." The reason they tell you this is because the antibiotic "treatment" does nothing for the underlying cause of the problem, it simply eliminates the "symptom" of the underlying problem temporarily.

P.S. -- Erythromycin prevents bacteria from growing, by interfering with their protein synthesis. Erythromycin binds to the subunit 50S of the bacterial ribosome, and thus inhibits the translation of peptides.

[romunov]

Problem for "red slime" is buildup of nutrients. Water change, water change, water change!

Well, it works for me anyway.

Ninong, to be more precise, the erythromycin molecules plugs the tunnel where the protein is suppose to be coming out.

[Jeff Haupert]

That's a lot of information to consider. It's amazing what they don't say about a product. In my case I did consider the cause, do regular water changes and have had NO adverse reactions. All my weekly tests remain ok.

I guess that's why I like this site, we can all share our experiences and learn from each other. Thanks for posting a reply.

jeff-

[Mini_Reef]

Could someone point me towards a good website that has pictures of red slime algae? I've been having some reb hair algae in my little 30 gallon tank.
But there are some darker spots, and I want to be sure to treat it as soon as I can. I've heard nasty stories about the dreaded red slime....

[charlie]

Try to siphon it out when you do a water change, it is a great way of nutrient export. I am still fighting cyano, although there is alot less than there was a month ago. I try to give it a good siphon very 4th water change, which would be 2 weeks.

[Frag Hag]

I obsessively practice the zen of water change, was confident in my tank's nutrient export, and circulation. Cyano was NOT going to happen on my watch...

Spotted it last week on my sand bed - Nano-Cyano, or what I like to call red slime from hell. Disgusting stuff. Turkey baster, siphoning, water changes, reducing lights, all proved to be very helpful... to the cyano. It is flourishing with a vengeance.

I will continue to attempt to fight the red slime battle naturally (Translated this means: first thing in the morning I'm buying chemicals, naturally.).

[BubbaWPB]

If you're using chemicals, I highly recommend Chemi-Pure! Skip the erythromycin based ones.... Make sure the package says it is not only reef safe, but SAFE FOR NITRIFYING BACTERIA. If it doesn't specifically say it, it probably isn't.

[optical]

ive tried chemi-clean and it worked perfectly, in a couple of days it was totally gone! i couldnt get rid of it before with just water changes so i had to use chemicals. this product is made by boyd enterprises from miami. not sure exactly whats in it but it says theres no phosphates, algacides, or erythromycin succinate, and it is safe for reef tanks.

[BubbaWPB]

yeah... that's what I meant! I knew it was chemi-sumthin. Good stuff. It makes the water real clear, too!

[TankU]

Is the red slime that is mentioned here look live red velvet? I have this occasionaly. I do water changes but still have this problem. It seems to lay on my rocks but is easily removed. Just curious if this is what we are talking about. It seems when it starts it easily spreads.

[BubbaWPB]

Is the red slime that is mentioned here look live red velvet? I have this occasionaly. I do water changes but still have this problem. It seems to lay on my rocks but is easily removed. Just curious if this is what we are talking about. It seems when it starts it easily spreads.

Yup. That's the stuff.

[JoeLauria]

UltraLife red slime remover killed the beneficial bacteria that consume nitrites in my aquarium.
2 days ago I went into the room where my 24 gallon aquapod is and my fish were lying on the sand gasping for air. I knew it couldent be the disolved oxygen since the flow in my tank is good. So I tested for ammonia it was zero. then I tested for nitrites the result was shocking it was through the roof My API test kit only reads to 5ppm and it was 2-3 shades darker than the highest reading. I had no Idea what was happening so I took my fish and my coral to my LFS and he graciously is holding them for me.
I was stumped so I went on reef central looking for answers. after bloging for a while someone asked me if I used any medications. Then it hit me 3-4 days prior to the crash I was at my LFS, I told him that I used red slime remover, and asked him if it would help with my other algea he said no red slime is more of a bacteria, and the remover kills it with antibiotics, it wont kill the other algea. I didnt think much of it at the time. I used a little less than the product recomended, and it almost killed my fish. My coral was pretty much un effected but I didn't want to take the chance so hes hodling on to my fish and coral. My point is I will never use that stuff again. I got it from my sister and foolishly went for the quick fix and used it. Ill also tell my story to any LFS that has an red slime remover product.

[Shing]

That sounds like an oxygen issue, not a nitrification problem. The product tells you to run airstones while using it, as it does deplete oxygen. Did you do that? It's critical - especially if you are not running a skimmer to aereate the water during treatment. Flow alone will not keep enough oxygen in the water. Also, your LFS is incorrect about the product being an antibiotic, it is not and it specifically does not contain any ethromycin succinate (whcih I am not going to check the spelling on!) That said, I do wish they said more about how the product works. It seems to be enzymatic, but I can't be sure and am not a chemist.
You also need to watch your pH when using these, especially if you are not using a daily calcium/buffer additive.
I've had success with UltraLife so far. Turns my water green and my skimmer goes crazy for a couple of days, but it has worked on my red slime and not seemed to have affected anything else. I think it also clarified the water a bit as well.
But it is a bandaid. Almost every time, including in my tank, red slime is the result of too much food and fish waste creating dissolved organics in the water. Red Slime is like any other living thing -- if it can't eat, it won't be there! I have an Anthias, so I have to feed a couple of times a day at least, but am trying to cut back the amounts. I may actually use this product every two months or so as a maintenance measure to keep uneaten food and waste digested.
Anyway, I did not mean to lecture you, I hope it didn't come across that way. Good luck with your tank!

[Franzvs]

I had the same problem. The red remover did work without any negative side effects (except for the anemone which suffered), but if you don't fix the reason it happened it will continue to occur. The problem is most likely high phosphates (you said that you have a skimmer, so nitrate level is probably not the issue). I bought a phosphate reactor and added phosban/carbon. Never had a problem since. It costs a little bit of money but is worth it since you don't have to use any unknown substances that could hurt your reef. Feed less and if your adding phytoplankton and other coral food, don't do it for a while or lessen it. Corals should be fine with enough light without supplements for a while (not sure what you have). I also use the Purapad at all times, which takes phospates and other organics out. This can be a quick fix but for a 60gallon tank might not suffice..

[blennydude]

I have heard a pack of Maracyn works great for ridding tanks of red slime (stuff for bacterial infections). Anybody know more about this product? Is it safe to use?

[Ninong]

Hi Shing,

Welcome to Reefland. Maybe I should mention that this thread is actually four years old and that the post that you responded to is seven months old.

That sounds like an oxygen issue, not a nitrification problem. The product tells you to run airstones while using it, as it does deplete oxygen. Did you do that? It's critical...

Yes, it is. This is one of those products that have to be used EXACTLY as directed by the manufacturer to avoid potential catastrophe. When used as directed, it is harmless.

However, it will do absolutely NOTHING to eliminate the underlying causes of the cyanobacteria. If those causes are not addressed, the cyano will be back.

Also, your LFS is incorrect about the product being an antibiotic, it is not and it specifically does not contain any ethromycin succinate...

Haha! Did that information come from advertising copy or did it come directly from the manufacturer? The reason I raise this point is because the manufacturer has REFUSED to answer this specific question in email correspondence. When asked directly if the product "contains erythromycin or any other antibiotic," the manufacturer responded as follows: "The ingredients of this product were developted many years ago with the help of a highly honored chemist. The formula is a trade secret. The effect on pH and DO can be that they may drop and rise or drop and stay down. It is something to watch carefully."

When pressed in a second email to answer specifically if the product is an antibiotic, they responded as follows: "It is a guarded secret, if necessary feel free to pass that along."

So that's the official response from the company. When asked directly, they refused to answer that question.

I know several people who have used it who believe that it is an antibiotic, including at least one with a Ph.D. in Chemistry and two who are medical doctors. They believe that it is an antibiotic based on the way that it works. I have also seen some people (who do not have doctorates in chemistry) say that they believe it might be an oxidizing agent, such as hydrogen peroxide. All I know is that when given a chance to deny that it is an antibiotic, the manufacturer refused to say one way or the other. And that was just a couple of years ago.

Red Slime is like any other living thing -- if it can't eat, it won't be there! I have an Anthias, so I have to feed a couple of times a day at least, but am trying to cut back the amounts. I may actually use this product every two months or so as a maintenance measure...

Rather than using "this product every two months or so as a maintenance measure," why not act on your first statement instead: "If it can't eat, it won't be there!"

Control nutrients, specifically nitrogen and phosphate and you will control cyanobacteria. Begin using a GFO product to reduce phosphate. You need to keep PO4 below 0.03 ppm to keep cyanobacteria in check. In the meantime, make sure that your lights do not need to be replaced. Make sure that you are directing adequate current into any areas that have cyanobacteria as this will physically break up the strands of cells. And make sure that you have a decent protein skimmer to reduce nitrates.