[smidoid]

I read somewhere that some folk use human urine to start their tank cycling... now it sounds icky but it also makes a weird kinda sense. I mean, how else do you actually get ammonia into the tank without adding some fish?

My setup is dry right now as I'm waiting on the LR and protein skimmers to arrive and the last thing I want to do is sacrifice a damsel or two (even though they are tough and cheap) because they are living creatures that feel pain just for the sake of the nitrate/ite spikes.

The thing is how MUCH amonia do you need per gallon to get things going and not kill the nitrobactowhatsits (or worse) on the LR?

Seriously, any help is appreciated. I'm not new to fishkeeping, but I am new to marine and it's about as similar as calcium carbonate and a nice Brie. :slap:

[zhenya]

I think if you get uncured live rock than you won't have to pee in your tank to start the cycle...
Many people use raw table shrimp or two, to start the cycle as well. After you see ammonia rising you can take those out and your cycling shall begin.
But, when I started my tank, I only used uncured live rock and it cycled without adding anything. I think die off in the rock itself provided enough ammonia to kick start the cycling.

[charlesr1958]

I agree, and besides, who wants to take the chance of slipping off the step ladder and be found floating in a tank with your pants around your ankles, somehow I doubt anyone would believe " I was kick starting a cycle..honest!"

A little chunk of shrimp/fish meat or uncured live rock, or even a few drops of pure unscented ammonia will do the trick.

[smidoid]

So, basically, a bit of "dead stuff" should do the trick? I can only get cured live rock locally I think - the suppliers tell me that the stink from the curing process is a bit much for the living room! I only have a small town house (and in the UK, they're like shoe boxes) so there's nowhere to cure 30-40lbs of LR - except in the tank!

Honestly though, that's a great idea. I would have had a helluva job explaining why my pants were soaked with saltwater too. I'd get be more likely to get off with the maid! But that's another story. :-)

[WillieM96]

I don't know if it would actually work. You urinate urea, not ammonia and I don't know if this will do the same thing as far as cycling your tank.

[smidoid]

How true. I hadn't actually thought of that - fish excrete ammonia directly, but we convert it to urea in our livers (Wikipedia's a marvellous thing). Sounds like it was an old wive's tale (probably intended as a gross out). How could I have fallen for that? <smacks head with palm>

[zhenya]

smidoid,

I've started my 75g sps tank with cured live rock and live sand only and had fish and corals in it in two weeks. Not a whole lot of them, but nonetheless I had livestock in it. There were no cycle to speak of, ammonia risen just a tad(probably slight die off in live sand) and fallen almost the next day, NO3 levels dropped to nothing at the end of first week as well. I waited another week just to be safe and added one fish and one coral.
I am not saying that this is the right way to start a reef tank, only that it worked for me. I think starting with uncured live rock makes much more sence in terms of building greater life diversity in the tank but I needed a new tank in a hurry to save some corals from ever growing population of anemones in my other tank...

[smidoid]

Hey Gene,

that's a grand idea. I'll look into getting some uncured live rock to put in the refugium or possibly a bit of both. Surely, the suppliers will be able to get it to order (and it should be cheaper anyway). From what I read the die-off from the uncured rock is sufficient to get the cycle started - it's just the potential for an acrid smell that puts my "boss" off! ;-)

Marc

[dreams]

charlie,

[smidoid]

Originally Posted by dreams

charlie,

Oh dear. Am I missing something here?

[Reefland]

Originally Posted by charlesr1958

I agree, and besides, who wants to take the chance of slipping off the step ladder and be found floating in a tank with your pants around your ankles, somehow I doubt anyone would believe " I was kick starting a cycle..honest!"

A little chunk of shrimp/fish meat or uncured live rock, or even a few drops of pure unscented ammonia will do the trick.

I think they were laughing at this possibility...

[smidoid]

Slippin' in the tank... but how about the decaying shrimp... Would that release ammonia or just a nasty niff?

[Amphibious]

smidoid

Using uncured rock is kind of exciting because it comes in with lots of macro algae, sponges, possibly crabs, starfish, maybe a coral that might live through the cycle and the ever possibility of a praying mantis shrimp. Some of these things are good, some are not. It isn't at all necessary to start your cycle with uncured LR unless you are adventuress. Cured live rock is much better and easier to deal with and will kick start your cycle just fine without risking falling off the ladder and having to explain to everyone what you were trying to do.

I just set-up a 135gal and have a thread about it here with pictures.

[smidoid]

Woah! Can we say "the dog's bollocks" here? Certainly looks the dog's from here mate. All that plumbing. Wowsa. Mine is only 35gln with a 15(ish) DIY sump-cum-refugium - still all dry while I await the final bits. I'm itching to get some water in but very aware that speed kills in this business.

How about a mix of 50-50 or 40-60 uncured to cured? I'm going to call the suppliers now and see if they will get me some uncured. It's got to be worth it provided it doesn't stink the house out!! (Otherwise it won't be the dog worrying about his dangly bits!!!)

Marc

[smidoid]

Dick, I also read you swear by UV filtration. I'm a bit worried about using it because I don't know where to put it in the system. The flow should be about 1200 litres per hour with the current head (not sure what that is in real money) but it's pretty fast turning over the tank about 10 times per hour (which I understand is what you need).

The only place I could reasonably put a UV is in the return. Would it be OK there - or would the flow rate be too high for it to be effective? If that's the case, is it better to have a dedicated pump to handle the UV?

I've also heard some horror stories about using it - but you seem to be enjoying a great success and that appeals to me! (Anything that makes it easier on the livestock appeals to me - which is why my basic tank suddenly grew a refugium before it even got water - much to my wife's chagrin!)

Just when I thought I had it all sorted too.... ;-)

[Poseidon]

Amphibious, great thread you have going there! I agree with smidoid, you did FANTASTIC on the plumbing, I always spill some of that Darn purple primer!

[zhenya]

Amphibious, good luck on your battle with the algae. I too agree on the plumbing job, exellent! Just one question,though, why is there so many 90 degrees elbows? Don't they increase head pressure? I wonder if there any way to eliminate some of them by using some other parts, hmmm.... something for me to think about before I undertake the plumbing rewamp on my tank. Otherwise the plumbing work looks very neat.

[smidoid]

Originally Posted by zhenya

Amphibious, good luck on your battle with the algae. I too agree on the plumbing job, exellent! Just one question,though, why is there so many 90 degrees elbows? Don't they increase head pressure? I wonder if there any way to eliminate some of them by using some other parts, hmmm.... something for me to think about before I undertake the plumbing rewamp on my tank. Otherwise the plumbing work looks very neat.

When I was looking into plumbing mine (a rather simpler affair) I discovered a 75(ish) degree elbow but they are only available in a limited number of sizes (at least, where I shop). They also put slopes on the pipes which can also be a bit of a drag because of the extra height you gain/lose over the pipe run.

The real solution is to use flexible pipe and/or make your own bends but that's a drag with semi-hard plastic since it seems to stretch and snap too easily. Of course, maybe that's me being such a gorrilla.

I would have thought the real problem with the bends would be the extra load on the the pump(s). I guess anything gravity fed would be OK provided that it's sufficiently large bore. Is that right Dick?

I've put some 1inch bioballs into one of the gravity-fed exhaust ports on my tank in order to create a wet-dry filter before in reaches the sump.

[My2heartboys]

Originally Posted by smidoid

Hey Gene,

that's a grand idea. I'll look into getting some uncured live rock to put in the refugium or possibly a bit of both. Surely, the suppliers will be able to get it to order (and it should be cheaper anyway). From what I read the die-off from the uncured rock is sufficient to get the cycle started - it's just the potential for an acrid smell that puts my "boss" off! ;-)

Marc

__________________________________________________ ____________

Marc, try www.floridaliverock.com or www.tampabaysaltwater.com Shipping is rather pricey---but that is the case with all live goods that are shipped.

Anne

[smidoid]

Thanks for that Anne, but I guess it would cost an even bigger fortune than you imagine since I'm a limey and live in good ol' blighty! In fact, I don't know how we even get the stuff over here unless it comes from the "Med." that's the warm and sunny bits of Europe!

I've requested some eco-friendly live rock too as the supplier I use can get it and I can also get some vanilla stuff to add to the refugium and use the LS to innoculate it.

Course, all this is theory so far, as I said elsewhere, my entire set up is dry just now. It's all research-research-research-build-research some more.