[My2heartboys]

Tonight at 9pm CST Discovery Science Channel will be showing "Predators Of The Great Barrier Reef (crown of thorns seastar)"

Anne

[optical]

i saw that show before. its really neat. dang crown of thorns are eating up everything! theory goes-tons of nutrients are being brought in the oceans providing excellent conditions for reproduction. now theres millions of them just devouring the reefs in plague proportions!

[My2heartboys]

Originally Posted by optical

i saw that show before. its really neat. dang crown of thorns are eating up everything! theory goes-tons of nutrients are being brought in the oceans providing excellent conditions for reproduction. now theres millions of them just devouring the reefs in plague proportions!

Here's the killer---where do you suppose all of those nutrients are coming from? Global warming is just a very very small part of the problem and it sure isn't contributing to this particular problem.

Anne

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by My2heartboys

Here's the killer---where do you suppose all of those nutrients are coming from?

On the GBR, it's mostly coming from agricultural runoff. In the Red Sea a lot of it comes from raw sewage. Populations of Acanthaster plancii have surged all over in recent years due to a combination of factors. As already mentioned, excess nutrients resulting from man-made pollution fuel phytoplankton blooms which in turn increase just about everything else, starting with zooplankton such as pelagic larvae.

So more of the larvae survive and settle out. Then more of them survive and grow because their primary biological control, the giant triton, has been overharvested.

It's not a good idea to fool with Mother Nature. That applies to removing wolves from their natural range as well as removing predators, such as the giant triton that controlled the crown of thorns populations.

In some areas that are particularly hard hit, they're removing them by hand. You have to remove them, you can't simply go down there and chop them up. Every time you chop up a crown of thorns, you end up with most of the pieces growing into new individuals.

[smidoid]

Originally Posted by Ninong

You have to remove them, you can't simply go down there and chop them up. Every time you chop up a crown of thorns, you end up with most of the pieces growing into new individuals.

Which is why there are so many of the buggers out there -smashing them up was originally thought to be the safest method of removing them. This is where Sir Alec Guiness got the immortal line from in Star Wars, "If you kill me now I will be come more powerful than you can ever imagine!"

[Ninong]

I watched that Science Channel program last night. It was very interesting. Looks like they have taken to injecting them with acid to kill them but that requires an injection in each arm.

I remember reading an article some time back that talked about collecting them manually (with tongs of course) and hauling them out of the water to dry out as a method of eradication. Could be that they're still using that method in other parts of the world.

[My2heartboys]

Originally Posted by Ninong

I watched that Science Channel program last night. It was very interesting. Looks like they have taken to injecting them with acid to kill them but that requires an injection in each arm.

I remember reading an article some time back that talked about collecting them manually (with tongs of course) and hauling them out of the water to dry out as a method of eradication. Could be that they're still using that method in other parts of the world.

Ninong, I don't know. Have there been any breeding programs started to hopefully bring the giant triton back to the wild? Surely if there were, no shortage of food would be available to them--they're killing the destructive little buggers (crown of thorns) anyway--might as well use them for food and teach the captive bred tritons what their natural prey is.

Anne

[Ninong]

The program last night on the Science Channel pointed out that populations of many of the fish species that are known to prey on the crown of thorns have also been depleted. I believe the giant triton is it's primary biological control, or at least that's what I read a couple of years ago when I researched this topic.

According to the points made last night, it's the phytoplankton blooms that are responsible for the dramatic survival rates of the crown of thorns larvae. They mentioned laboratory experiments done at AIMS that showed that as the density of the phyto increases, the survival of the larvae increases exponentially.

They have known for a long time now that the agricultural runoff was a problem. This is true all over the world. And in some places, such as the Red Sea, raw sewage is a problem. Egypt dumps a lot of untreated sewage into the Red Sea.

The problem is that the natural cycles don't apply any more because we have interfered with the rules of the game. We have overfished the natural predators while increasing the survivability of the crown of thorns larvae.

We have done this all over the world in one way or another. It's all starting to catch up with us now. Just look at the mess we created in the Mediterranean with that mutant strain of Caulerpa taxifolia. Look at the mess we're creating in the Gulf of Mexico with chemicals being dumped into the Mississippi river.

[smidoid]

And sadly, it isn't just the seas we're messing up...

[My2heartboys]

Originally Posted by Ninong

The program last night on the Science Channel pointed out that populations of many of the fish species that are known to prey on the crown of thorns have also been depleted. I believe the giant triton is it's primary biological control, or at least that's what I read a couple of years ago when I researched this topic.

According to the points made last night, it's the phytoplankton blooms that are responsible for the dramatic survival rates of the crown of thorns larvae. They mentioned laboratory experiments done at AIMS that showed that as the density of the phyto increases, the survival of the larvae increases exponentially.

They have known for a long time now that the agricultural runoff was a problem. This is true all over the world. And in some places, such as the Red Sea, raw sewage is a problem. Egypt dumps a lot of untreated sewage into the Red Sea.

The problem is that the natural cycles don't apply any more because we have interfered with the rules of the game. We have overfished the natural predators while increasing the survivability of the crown of thorns larvae.

We have done this all over the world in one way or another. It's all starting to catch up with us now. Just look at the mess we created in the Mediterranean with that mutant strain of Caulerpa taxifolia. Look at the mess we're creating in the Gulf of Mexico with chemicals being dumped into the Mississippi river.

__________________________________________________ _________

Ninong, it is also due to the fact that we are destroying our wetlands, which usually take up a lot of the nutrients before they hit the ocean, as well. As far as chemicals being dumped into the Mississippi river, they should not be being dumped. If it is the government dumping them--we need to call them on it. If it is a company--they need to be fined and shut down---PERIOD--END OF STORY. Isn't that what the EPA is for?????

I know I don't have the money for it, but I would dearly love to take a general course in marine biology and ecology. Problem---what on earth would I do with the knowledge in landlocked Kansas.

Anne

[My2heartboys]

Originally Posted by smidoid

And sadly, it isn't just the seas we're messing up...

Unfortunately you are right.

Anne