My Take on Joe's Juice

[sihaya]

At the risk of having a contract taken out on my life and being boo-ed out of the forum... I just really need to get this out of my system: I greatly dislike Joe's Juice. For a few reasons:

1) It doesn't kill anything. In fact, I bet I could drink it myself and not so much as vomit (I haven't tested that theory though, so please don't go drinking it just because I said that... if for no other reason, we don't know what's in it).
2) It clogs the needle such that if I ever want to reuse the needle, I have to soak it in vinegar for at least 20 minutes first.
3) It's $6+ for 50ml of something mystery fluid... trade secret my arse, it can't be more than 2 or 3 common chemicals (and I'd bet they're all ones we already use in the hobby).
4) It creates this illusion of working by making the aptasia apparently disappear for 2, maybe 3 days. Then it would seem that almost as quickly as they disappeared, lo and behold, they're back! Big and beautiful as ever!

So I think it's all bogus. I don't think the stuff works at all. The only way I've ever been able to kill the aptasia in my tank is with ericb's formula posted on MD... 1 tsp sodium hydroxide with 2 tsp kalk in 100ml distilled water. Turn off the pumps, squirt it at them with a dosing needle and syringe and let it sit for an hour. (you do have to make sure the mix stays mixed and the kalk doesn't settle in the needle as you're squirting)

Yeah, it's dangerous in that it kills everything it touches... anemones, coral, brush algae, your own skin, etc. And I accidently killed a much loved hitchhiked sea squirt with it (and "accidently" almost burned my hand once). But I swear at least it kills the aptasia! (and I actually make it a little more dangerous by doing closer to a 1 to 1 solution of NaOH and kalk... it stays mixed up longer and gets nice and hot too). The only thing is that you do have to be *really* careful as it is NaOH (just think about that scene from Fight Club, "this is a chemical burn"... in case you don't recall, that was NaOH they were playing with).

[FishieNut]

I just got rid of a large aptasia on a rock of zoos I bought a month or so ago.

Method: Boil water. Add Kalk. Mix. Put in small needle-like turkey baster (I used a Kent long skinny, with a spike at the end type baster). I "snuk" up on it and squirted it. That was it. GONE.

Cost: -0- (I have the Kalk, and used just a pinch or two)

[ericb]

Sara, thanks for the thumbs up on it as I agree. I have used everything and this is the only thing I have found effective besides Berghia which are a pain in and of themselves, and Peppermint shrimp which eventually eat each other or won't eat Aiptasia in a full blow reef tank. Hydrochloric acid works, but the Aiptasia feel it and withdraw quickly. The hydroxide/kalk doesn't cause a retraction and, being mostly an organic corrosive, kills them darn well. I also thought Joe's Juice was the bomb till they came back in triplicate a few weeks later. Boiling water, boiling kalkwasser, capscium based products....I have filled the entire gut cavity of them and watched them laugh. You'll kill some, of course, but it is not a 100% kill rate and if you just kill the parent, you'll eave up to a dozen or more pedal lacerates that just make the situation worse. That's the thing about the NaOH...kills the parent and the lacerates.

[Poseidon]

Sara, I don't think you are in danger of being booed out of the forum here.... ;) I have used the "juice" and I agree with you on its limited success rate, I know it killed SOME anemones, but the stuff didn't even bother GSP or yellow polyps that I WANTED to stop.

My next question is where does one get the NaOH? I am sure it is available under some trade name at a hardware or something rihgt?

[charlie]

I have always had success with just straight kalk. Sarah, do you have a link to Eric's method? I have to agree with you all tho, Joe's seems to just spread the problem more than get rid of them.

[ericb]

Red Devil lye is the brand name. Drain cleaner and 100% sodium hydroxide. But...here's the good part. Dissociates completely in water into Na and OH-. Nothing changes but pH, and the pH since it coagulates with the calcium hydroxide remains a very local pH effect and you'd have to add a lot to a really small tank to see a pH effect because of its behavor in the presence of other cations in seawater.

Here's the recipe. Get a capped bottle - like a spice jar...around 100ml or less. Add a heaping tablespoon of lye and dissolve in distilled water, and then a heaping tablespoon of kalkwasser. Use a transfer pipette or a transfer syringe or a syringe with a large bore needle to just slowly drip a little on the anemone. It will turn into mush along with anything else organic it contacts. Turn off all water cirulation as it will take about an hour to ensure everything is dissolved.. Also, by this point, the residual mixture is no longer nearly as caustic since it has equilibrated with seawater..the anemone dissolution and its contact with seawater has already made it safe once you turn the flow back on. It contacts the anemones easily just like Joe's juice, the difference of course being that it actually works well.

Two warnings: lye is extremely caustic and be careful when making the solution...lye boils if added to water...always add water to lye slowly and stir with a non metal object and watch your hands and eyes until dissolved. The container will get hot. Then the kalkwasser. Stir the mixture well before each use...you can do this by simply syringing in and out of the container before sucking up a batch. Second warning - even in solution this stuff will burn you - so wear gloves or be careful.

[charlie]

Eric, is it absolutly essential to turn the flow off, especially if the subject is in a low flow area?

[Poseidon]

Thanks Eric! Sounds like I am making a trip to the hardware store. I have a couple Aiptasia that I want to rid myself of, BEFORE I have LOTS...

[sihaya]

My next question is where does one get the NaOH? I am sure it is available under some trade name at a hardware or something rihgt?

Like Eric said, Red Devil Lye is NaOH... but it might not be so easy to find for some people. My husband and I went to every hardware store, Target and Walmart in our area and couldn't find Red Devil Lye anywhere. I actually ended up having to buy it on Ebay. At least it was cheap there.

[sihaya]

Two warnings: lye is extremely caustic and be careful when making the solution...lye boils if added to water...always add water to lye slowly and stir with a non metal object and watch your hands and eyes until dissolved. The container will get hot.

Yeah, seriously... don't shake it up in an Aquafina bottle like I do (unless your spouse is a doctor lol)

[MissInk]

Joe's Juice does exactly what it is supposed to... chemically burn the aiptasia and kill it. what it never promises to do is completely eliminate the aiptasia problem entirely on its own. no little bottled solution is going to do that, unless you completely douse the aiptasia from every angle, and that's just a waste of money. by applying just enough juice to cover the mouth of the aiptasia (preferably by syringe), the aiptasia will digest it and die from the inside out. the problem here is that any parts of the aiptasia left behind can grow into new aiptasia, explaining the temporary elimination of the big guy, but sudden bloom of many smaller ones. this is why Joe's Juice is only the first line of defense in aiptasia control. the second and final line of defense is to introduce into the tank known aiptasia-eaters. the most popular ones at the store i work at are scats and peppermint shrimp. these eat the smaller pieces of the juiced aiptasia, preventing new ones from growing out of them. peps and scats often get just as bad of a rap as Joe's Juice for aiptasia control because they don't even touch the larger, more visible aiptasia that people use to gauge their infestation. this is simply because the aiptasia have grown to a large enough proportion to be considerably threatening. take it down a few notches and zap the harmful tentacles with a little Joe's Juice, and the transition from predator to tasty snack is instant.

aiptasia control is always a two-step process. use only the first step, and you'll eliminate your problem temporarily, but it will keep coming back. use only the second step, and the problem won't grow, but it certainly won't go away. and when you talk about clogging, it's due the evaporation of the water contained in the mixture when it's left in the open air, which just means that you need to clean your equipment better after use. what's unfortunate is that this seems to be uncommon information in the hobby, and rather than spread the correct info, frustrated aquarists infect others with their misinformation, and people don't give Joe's Juice a fighting chance.

it's funny that you would bring up NaOH, because Joe's Juice is essentially an NaOH+RO water (and probably a few other mystery ingredients) mixture, and it is much more skin-friendly. ok, i admit i don't remember for certain if it is NaOH, but i'm at least 80% sure that it is, and if it isn't, then it is another hydroxide compound with an identical effect.

[tholleyh46]

I just epoxy them with reef epoxy in whatever hole they're poking their head out of. Success rate is 100%, with 0 (zero) collateral damage.

[TimH07]

3 year old thread, we have aiptasiaX now

[metalhead]

I have always had success with just straight kalk. Sarah, do you have a link to Eric's method? I have to agree with you all tho, Joe's seems to just spread the problem more than get rid of them.

Ditto... Kalk paste has worked 100% of the time for me with never a problem and believe me when I say that I have extensive experience in dealing with aiptasia anemones.