[jgb23]

I live in Central Florida and I am getting ready to start up a 75 gallon reef tank. I have read several postings about using playsand as a DSB. When I lived in Indiana, I used Southdown sand and it worked great. From what I read, Southdown is now old castle. While visiting Wal-mart, I noticed that their playsand was supplied by old castle. I assume this is the same one. There was a warning about trace amounts of silica in it. However, the bag clearly said to be used for sandboxes, not for use with Aquariums, leveling or landscaping. I have two questions:

1. Is this simply stated because us hobbyists have grown wise to paying 20-30 bucks for sand and know this sand will work fine or is there something else wrong with using it

2. Where in Central Florida can I find Tropical Play sand? I have tried all of the major outlets. I only live about an hour from Ft. Pierce, can I go to the Marcona Plant and get a truckbed of sand for a sand box? To be honest, my daughter's 6 X 6 sandbox can use a few hundred pounds in it.

Thanks,

Joe

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by jgb23

When I lived in Indiana, I used Southdown sand and it worked great. From what I read, Southdown is now old castle. While visiting Wal-mart, I noticed that their playsand was supplied by old castle. I assume this is the same one. There was a warning about trace amounts of silica in it.

No, if they had a warning on the bag about trace amounts of silica, then it's quartz sand and not aragonite sand. You could still use it if you want to but it's not what we refer to as "the" Southdown sand. Play sand can be either quartz or aragonite. Makes no difference as far as its classification as "play sand" is concerned. However, if they used the phrase "Tropical Play Sand from the Caribbean," then it probably IS aragonite. You could always drop a few drops of vinegar on it and see if it fizzles (releases CO2). Aragonite will dissolve in vinegar, quartz will not.

However, the bag clearly said to be used for sandboxes, not for use with Aquariums, leveling or landscaping.

That's an interesting "warning" that has only been around for the past couple of years. I wouldn't pay any attention to it myself.

1. Is this simply stated because us hobbyists have grown wise to paying 20-30 bucks for sand and know this sand will work fine or is there something else wrong with using it

I don't know of any reason not to use it. If it's quartz play sand, I wouldn't be interested in using it but some people do use it. One potential problem with quartz play sand is that it may not be 100% pure SiO2. It might contain a small amount of contaminants and possibly a small amount of other silica compounds, such as feldspar, that are more easily dissolved in saltwater. Whether this is a problem or not is impossible to predict.

Of course, you could have problems with aragonite sand if it's contaminated, too. I have used Southdown aragonite sand with excellent results. I have never used quartz sand because I have never been interested in using it.

2. Where in Central Florida can I find Tropical Play sand? I have tried all of the major outlets.

I don't believe you will find any Tropical Play Sand (aragonite) at any retail outlets in Florida.

I only live about an hour from Ft. Pierce, can I go to the Marcona Plant and get a truckbed of sand for a sand box? To be honest, my daughter's 6 X 6 sandbox can use a few hundred pounds in it.

I know two people who did exactly that. Rocky (scubadude) did that a few years ago. He even posted pictures of his pickup truck loaded down with almost two tons of Southdown (aragonite) sand that cost him something like 40 bucks!

[jgb23]

Ninong, thanks for the reply.

I was at Lowes today looking at their sand selection and found a Quickcrete play sand product. Reading over the package, it had no silica warnings and the granularity was the consistency of sugar sand. Could this work as a base sand (maybe 125-150lbs) and then add 50 lbs or so of argonite sand on top? Has anybody tried this sand?

[mandarin_watcher]

NO, NO, No!!!!
It might look ok, but you will have poblem down the line.
Just go to Foster and Smith and order 3 or 4 30# bags. cost about $70. and then get some live sand from your local fish store to start it up. It may cost 20 or 30 dollors more right now. But that is a heck of a lot less than the hundreds you will loose in fish and corals in six or 9 months. Plus the cost to try to save your tank.
I understand trying to save money, where you can. But save it by shopping around the different website looking for deals. or go into group buys. If you skimp on your set up. You will pay the price later. and it will be so much more than you saved now. That was my 4grand that cloged up the sewers 4 years ago. And That is the exact reason why. So many people told me that it was no different. It's ok, Things went fine for a while. Then so much crap leached from the sand that the bio could take care of it any longer. and Major CRASH. So here is the bottom line
This is an expensive hobby. Be prepared to spend major bucks. If you can't handle that then don't even start!!!!!

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by jgb23

Ninong, thanks for the reply.

I was at Lowes today looking at their sand selection and found a Quickcrete play sand product. Reading over the package, it had no silica warnings and the granularity was the consistency of sugar sand.

The "silica warnings" are required by California's Prop. 65. It's possible that this Quickcrete play sand product is not packaged for sale in the state of California; however, if it's regular Quickcrete play sand, then it's quartz sand. Quartz sand IS silica, SiO2 to be exact. The reason for the silica warning is that all quartz sand will have a certain amount of fine, powdered silica as a result of the grinding action of the sand particles rubbing against each other in transit. Silica, if inhaled, is carcinogenic -- thus it falls under California's strict warning law.

None of this has anything to do with its suitability for use in a marine aquarium.

Could this work as a base sand (maybe 125-150lbs) and then add 50 lbs or so of argonite sand on top? Has anybody tried this sand?

This is where I have to be careful to explain that I personally do not care for quartz sand for marine aquaria but my preference is not based on its suitability. I would not be interested in using quartz sand myself but it can be used if you choose to go that route.

This is a topic that comes up repeatedly on the various reefkeeping bulletin boards. One of the original proponents of using a deep sandbed in reef aquaria, Dr. Ron Shimek, is of the opinion that quartz (silica) sand is perfectly fine as long as the particle sizes are of the proper size. According to Dr. Shimek, it's the average size of the particles that makes the sand conducive to the beneficial infaunal biota that we all seek, assuming we are interested in that sort of a DSB. So as long as the sand is a fine particle sand, it doesn't matter whether it's quartz (SiO2) sand or calcareous (aragonite) sand (CaCO3).

There are other factors that come into play and other reasons why some people, like myself, prefer aragonite sand. There is a certain amount of buffering that aragonite sand provides that you won't get with quartz sand. The dispute is over the amount. I have given up on that discussion. Some people claim a significant amount and others claim it is insignificant. The chemistry involved is not as straightforward as it might appear at first glance.

As far as whether quartz sand can be a problem in a marine aquarium, it isn't a problem if it's pure quartz (SiO2). This sand has been used sucessfully by many hobbyists without problems. If you do decide to use it, I would wash it well with running water in a bucket or tub first to remove any silica dust and to check for any contaminants. This is NOT what you should do if you are using regular "Southdown" aragonite sand. At least it's not what I did and not what I would recommend. If the sand is aragonite, the fine powdery particles are to be preserved, not discarded. Of course this will result in a longer initial period for the tankwater to clear up but that's no big deal.

I believe the reports by some hobbyists that they experienced problems with a quartz sandbed can be attributed to other factors that have nothing to do with the fact that the sand was quartz and not aragonite. If the quartz sand has a lot of dust in it or if it has contaminants, that will be a problem. If it is not 100% pure quartz, that's a problem. As I said previously, you could have contamination in either quartz sand or aragonite sand but at least you don't have to worry about possible problems with silicate in aragonite sand.

You can see photomicrographs of Quickcrete quartz play sand, Southdown aragonite and Carib-Sea aragonite here.

[sihaya]

I haven't read this whole thread, but I got my sand from a construction supply store. It's fine masonry sand at $10 for 100lbs. As far as I understand it, it's meant to be pure (or nearly pure) SiO2. I mixed it with a little reptile sand (which is supposed to be just Ca carbonate) just for fun and grain size variety. Seems to works for me...