[Freddy Twotimes]

I have tried Tetra and Red Sea test kits for testing my PH. Both kits have shown me water color that does not match whats on the supplied card and it's confusing to try and guess where exactly I am at on the PH.

I never gave it as much thought as yesterday when I saw a response to a thread by Leebca talking about the importance of maintaining a PH accurately, because of how it can affect inhabitence even if it is off by just a couple of points.

In this case, I would like to make more of a conscience effort to check the PH more often and really know where I am at. I have been looking into electronic test probes and they are ranging in price from $80.00 - $200.00; how is this community testing thier PH and what say you on this subject of accurate PH testing?

Is there an affordable liquid test kit that is accurate? What is the difference between an $80.00 electronic kit and a $200.00 test kit?

[Freddy Twotimes]

I was just reading an older post by Ninong regarding the accuracy of test kits and a website by a German individual who has done some extensive research on the subject. The link to the website is broken, but I just realized that if I check the PH with the light off it is going to be lower than if the light was on for the day...when is the best time to test the PH?

[prow]

pinpoint ph monitors are very good. easy to use. they run about $100.00. i think most ph montiors run in the same price range. the ones you see costing $200.00 i think might be the ph controllers not the monitors. forget about the test kits buy the ph monitor.

as far as testing time, i alway test with lights on about 2 hours before they turn off. then again in the early am while light are off. what you are looking at/for is the swing. while lights on your corals, bac, algea and others things that use photosynthesis produce O2, which causes a reduction in CO2 concentrations which inturn drives the ph up. during the night while lights are off there is no photosynthesis. subsequntually O2 levels drop resulting in higher CO2 concentrations causing a drop in ph. for ref you dont want the ph to swing more than +/- 0.2 within 24 hours. if you have a sump/refugium you can do a reverse light schedule to help keep the ph swings to minimum. meaning while lights on in the main tank your lights in the sump are off. than when lights go off in the main tank the light in sump goes on. hope this helps.

[Reefland]

A monitor is the best way, and most accurately way, to monitor your pH. For the additional cost, you might consider a controller for future upgrades and additions you might make ot your tank (like a Calcium Reactor).

[Freddy Twotimes]

Everything helps; I am actually happy that my tank is taking so long to cycle. I am learning a lot about testing in this time frame I have been unable to house corals and/or fish.

I just went to a high end LFS and they tested my water using a electronic PH tester and some other, more expensive test kits. I was suprised to see that the Red Sea Nitrate test kit was as far off as it was. My Red Sea Ammonia and Nitrite test results were the same as the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals kit they used. Again, the Nitrate was WAY off. They got 80ppm and I about 5.0. That at least tells me what I should be changing out first.

My Calcium was realy high, they recommended Tropic Marin; according to thier tests, it actually had the amount of trace elements that was labled on the package. They say it really does maintain about a 420ppm calcium level. I am cycling my tank now and have a 660ppm calcium level! It is way off and there is nothing in the tank to consume it... Again, I'm glad I am learning these things now when all I have is rock in the tank so everything helps...thanks

[Freddy Twotimes]

Originally Posted by Freddy Twotimes

My Calcium was realy high, they recommended Tropic Marin; according to thier tests, it actually had the amount of trace elements that was labled on the package.

This of course is in regards to the type of Sea salt mix...I am currently using Kent and my calcium levels are always 600-700. I am a novice, I only want a soft coral tank; polyps, a colt, mushrooms, candy-canes and leathers and again I am still cycling. There is Coroline on the rock I have even with the light being off for the past two weeks.

I have been running without a light to keep unwanted algae growth from getting out of control while the tank is still not safe to support a cleanup crew. [It was getting out of control three weeks ago and I had to act]

Has anyone else had an issue like this - maintaining a balanced Calcium level with these types of corals using reef salt with trace elements? Everything adds Calcium and nothing I have seems to need it in those quantities... My Calcium level seems to be very important in maintaining a proper PH so this is something I need to control.

[prow]

ah ic kudos to you for doing your homework. even more kudos for coming here for info. a great place with lots of good people. ok there is alot to go over here. here are some readings about Ca+ addivtives and how to correct imbalances. its more than just ph and Ca+. Alk, Mg and salinity levels all play there part in maintaining Ca+ levels. anyway here you go.
this one is on how it works
Calcium and Alkalinity by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

this one help with chosing a type additive
Chemistry and the Aquarium

here is one on correcting imbalances
Chemistry and the Aquarium

there are many links within these articles and at the bottom of them. check them out too. but before you worry to much about the Ca+ you need to fix the nitrate issue. use RO/DI water for changes and do big changes like 50% daily till is goes down. blow off your rocks with a powerhead or turkey baster ever couple days till you dont see much stuff blowing off. do still blow them off from time to time, at least once a month. make sure you have good flow, which brings up, what is your system? pumps, powerheads, lights, size tank, size, size sump if one, lbs of live rock, inches of live sand and/or substrate, skimmer type ect.. everything? need this info to be able to help or at least point you in the right direction.

o yeah for test kits the tetra are fine for checking ammonia and nitrite. for nitrate and most everything else i use salifert. the only 2 kits i dont like from them is their phosphate and O2 kits.

[Freddy Twotimes]

55 gallon all glass fish tank

[2] Maxi Jet 1200 powerheads

Coralife super skimmer 65 [protien skimmer]

large Whisper filter used only for waterflow, a place for the thermomitor, carbon and a future Poly filter if and when needed

62 Lbs of live rock [trying my best in that shallow of a tank to create open channels and plenty of negative space]

4" fine sand bed

192 watt Coralife lunar aqua light [10,000k + actinic bulbs]

light timer set for 8 hours a day [not in use]

Coralife power twist UV sterilizer

Tank rock in the beginning was pretty fresh, had alot of growth; it cured for about 10 days, I did 2 50% water changes, the first after the 10th day the second about two weeks after that. Since then I have done 3 20% water changes, the tank has been running for about 10 weeks now.

Ammonia has been 2.5 for a week now, Nitrite .025 for a week now, before todays water change Nitrate was 80, Phosphate was .01, PH was 7.8 and the Calcium is over 600. I would expect the Nitrate to be high because I am cycling...

[Freddy Twotimes]

Also, I do have a dead spot in the tank along the back glass, under the rock along the sand floor; Its hard to get back there with anything.

[Freddy Twotimes]

I am confused, I read the articals you linked me to and most of them talk about adding Calcium. The last artical I read, about correcting imbalances, did have something to say about correcting high Calcium levels by adding an Alk. suppliment... the only problem is that my Calcium is over 600 and my Alk. is 2.9-3.6.

My local fish store recommended that I use Instand ocean, which has no trace elements in it to lower the Calcium level through water changes and then to start using Tropic Marin professional reef salt in place of the Kent marine I am using now. They claim it should keep me around 420 on the Calcium and replenishing the trace elements through the bi monthy water changes enough to support my beginner soft corals?

Its seems insane to have a reef aquarist who cant LOWER his Calcium! Usually, its the ladder!

[Reefland]

Freddy,

First I would worry about the ammonia readings and then worry everything else. There is definitely a source of the ammonia (I beleive you have had the water tested a few times to confirm this reading) and it must be corrected before your tank will support any life.

[Freddy Twotimes]

I know, I am not through the cycling proccess yet and have no intention of putting anything in there until its ready. Everything seems to be doing what it is supposed to do at this time except for the Calcium level.

I would like, if possible, to have a well balanced water quality when I can add life and the Calcium seems to effect things that will leave corals and fish stressed...when I'm ready...

[Reefland]

Oh ok, that is good to know.

The high calcium will not harm your corals or fish, but it is soemthing that should be lowered. During your next water change, do a calcium test on the new saltwater you make up.

[Freddy Twotimes]

Do you think the LFS idea will work? Using Instant ocean to bring the Calcium level down because there are no trace elements added...like Calcium?

Do you think its possible that a high quality reef salt like Tropic Marin could help me in maintaining a lower Calcium level...under 500ppm? I am only doing water changes with Kent Marine reef salt adding nothing in the way of additives and I am at 680! And again, I am going to be running a soft coral tank with minimal life forms consuming high amounts of Calcium.

At one time I used Instant ocean and I believe I was maintaining a Calcium level of 440 or so but all reef additives have Calcium in it! I am at a loss for a good answer? Maybe I will just have to deal with a higher than normal Calcium level and a lower PH as long as everything else is in tolerance?

[prow]

did they tell you that? there are trace elements in IO and yes that includes Ca+. its not at NSW levels. if you do water changes it will bring down. but again dont worry about it now. to fix the nitrate and ammonia you will need to do water changes and that will also lower your Ca+.

i have used tropic marine before. it did not maintain a balanced alk/Ca+ in my system. i always had to calcium chloride to bring it into balance. plus that stuff is expensive.

with any salt i dont see how your calcium could be maintained anywhere close to that. what is your salininty level at? i also recommend getting a refractometer to measure your salinity the swing arm tester are just not accurate at all.

i think your rock is the cause of the ammonia and phosphates. sounds like lots of die off. recure the rock. scub it with a brush change 100% water. make sure the new water is RO/DI and at the right temp and salinity before replacing the old water. do 50%-100% water changes for a good solid week. then scale back the water changes for about another week or two. during this time keep the lights off. basically start over or you will fighting this for a long time. i would also add more flow, shoot for 10-20X turnover rate, about 800gph total. last thing upgrade your skimmer as soon as you can.

[Freddy Twotimes]

Reefland, I will test a 1 gallon batch made up from the Instant Ocean and Kent for Calcium, to see where its at prior to putting it in the tank. That sounds like a good idea. I can compare that to the Tropic Marin too.

Thats a good Idea.

Prow, I do plan on getting a probe PH tester and a Refractomitor but this is all going to take time, those items are expensive. I have nothing in the tank now so as long as the light is off I have no algae bloom and nothing is stressed or dying. The Ammonia level is the lowest its ever been, the Nitrates are thier lowest so I can wait a little longer to allow the tank to fully cycle. As bad as it might sound in this post, things have been moving in the right direction....slowly.

I just upgraded to the Coralife skimmer that I have from a Prizm. I like this one very much, it was affordable, it produces much more waist in the collection cup than the Prizm did and it is easy to clean and maintain. It appears to be working well? Is there a reason that you do not like the Coralife skimmers?

[prow]

Originally Posted by Freddy Twotimes

Is there a reason that you do not like the Coralife skimmers?

i never used one but i know some that have and they had issues with it overflowing. the skimmer is rated for a 65gal. your system is right at that. those that did use it had it on 30gal tanks. i just think the skimmer might be to small for your system. i do know someone that uses a coralife skimmer rated for a 125gal he uses on his 55gal tank.

[Freddy Twotimes]

I can understand that, what mine is missing from the larger model is an overflow tube. I had an issue with it overflowing a few times during the break-in period but it has been very predictable these past two months. I think I was the reason it overflowed because I kept messing with the knob everytime something looked different.

I hope that this skimmer works well; so far it seems to be pulling its wieght...