Phosphates

Holly · 10-09-2006, 02:15 PM

I've had a horrible two wks. First, I got an outbreak of white spot that killed a few fish. I medicated with Kick Ich, and as that was ending, I noticed that my pH was getting critically low, but I couldn't figure out why. Everything else seemed in line. I got the pH up, and now I've got a huge spike in phosphates, despite the fact that I had put in a new phosphate sponge a couple days ago when I got an algae bloom. A few other fish have now died.

I have no idea if each of these are interrelated or each is just happening individually. Oddly, most of my corals look fine. It's the fish and inverts that aren't doing well.

Is there anything I can use that works faster than the phosphate sponge, since it doesn't seem to be doing anything..? I was taking it out after 48hrs and replacing it with new soon after.

My RO/Di is only 25gpd, so my ability to do a huge water change is somewhat limited, though I've got it going right now. (180g tank)

I put in my bi-weekly small dose of both Kent essential elements and Kent coral vite last week. Could that affect phosphate?

What can cause a sudden spike in phosphates?

Thanks

wozza · 10-09-2006, 02:38 PM

hmmm...just thinking aloud here.
But maybe someone added a load of food with out you knowing?

james

Holly · 10-09-2006, 03:36 PM

Not possible, unless one of our babysitters has purposely sabbataged us!

My husband never touches tank-related stuff, and my kids are 2.5 and 4.5 yrs of age.

I'm giving them as much as they can eat in about 3 minutes, twice a day. I don't think that's too much..?

wozza · 10-09-2006, 05:21 PM

im by far no expert

but ide say that sound about right.

james

**golfish** · 10-09-2006, 10:24 PM

The best thing I have used for PO4's is Zeovit...That's a little costly to get started and probably not the best advice. What are you using to test PO4's? I have yet to find a test kit that will give me any reading at all. First thing I would do is change your DI resin or cart. Are you using a DI cart that's vertical or horizontal? The horizontal carts don't filter as well.

FWIW, I use a Hannah Colorimeter to test PO4's. Once I see a reading over 0.01 off my last DI cart I know its time to change (I use two DI carts). The test kits I've used have ALWAY's given me a zero reading, I hate em.

I'd say do a water change but that might do more harm if your RO\DI unit isn't doing its job.

Holly · 10-10-2006, 01:31 AM

I'll look into the Zeovit. No amt of money is too much to save my beasties!
Unfortunately the two LFSs are CLOSED on Monday and Tuesday, so I'm kinda stuck until Wed morn

I have the Salifert PO4 profi test kit (with 60 tests). I haven't had probs with the readings on any of my Salifert tests, but who knows?

We just got our RO/DI less than a month ago, so it's almost brand spankin' new. We have the Spectrapure 25gpd RO/DI unit, vertical.

Thanks

**golfish** · 10-10-2006, 07:42 PM

That is IMO the best maker of RO units for our hobby. I've used one for going on 8 years now. Just to be safe, have you tested the PO4's coming off the DI? if so what are they and what does the tank test at?

Holly · 10-10-2006, 09:12 PM

No, but since you guys asked about it, I ran some water through the RO/DI and tested it. You're right. It's phosphate level is between 2-3!! The thing is BRAND NEW. What can I do?

I tested ammonia/nitrite/nitrate a couple days ago and it was 0/0/trace. I just tested again, and it's crazy high. Nitrite 0.3 and nitrate 5. CRITICAL. How can it get there from zero in a couple of days? I put in a nitrate sponge.

So NOW the nitrites are killing them. First the ICH, then the pH yo-yoing (got down as low as 7.9 briefly!), and now the nitrites. "When it rains, it pours."

I called a new LFS this morning and asked them to please bring me a huge water change, but they're totally booked up until tomorrow. The LFS we've used in the past, the guy is just a nasty arsepain to deal with. This new guy's going to try to bring me 50gallons tomorrow for a big water change, if possible, and do an overall maintenance check on everything, to see if he can peg the problem (other than the crappy RO/DI). New guy was very nice on the phone =)

Thanks for the head's up about the DI. I would've never known to test it. I called Spectrapure and "everyone's gone for the day already" so they'll call me back sometime tomorrow >=0 ..I get that folks get to go home from work, but my tank is imploding, people!!! It's a Reef Holocaust!!

I can't do any kind of water change, obviously, since my RO/DI is producing phosphates like a fertilizer farm. Anything I can do other until tomorrow than the the sponges and reef carbon??

By the time they get here tomorrow, I'll need 267 sea hares to take down all the hair algae. HA

Meanwhile, I tested a slew of stuff today, and here it is:
Temp 79.5F
SG 1.025
ORP 330
pH 8.25 (still workin to get this up)
ALK 220
Ca 480
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0.3 !!!
Nitrates 5 !
Phosphates 3 !!!
Iron - trace
Iodine 0.2
Boron 8ppm
Mg 1455g/L

Yes, I actually bought all those tests. Silly, I know. =/

I'll add some Coral-Vite and Iodine tomorrow after the water change, since the Iodine and Iron are low.

Thanks for all your help

**golfish** · 10-11-2006, 10:00 PM

Holly, The people at Spectrapure are real good to deal with..you might want to check the PO4 levels on your tap water. They'll probably want to know that. How much water do you think you've ran through that DI cart? They don't last very long if you have bad water. You might want to add a second DI cart and start using refillable cartridges. Here's a link to a site that has a pretty good add on cart, plus they have DI resin and extra refillable carts.

HTH

Mark

Holly · 10-11-2006, 10:08 PM

I talked to the guy this morning, and he said I had to get KH, pH, NO3, PO4, and conductivity on tap water, RO only water, then RO/DI water, then call him back. I'm in the process of doing that right now, so I'll call him with the results first thing in the morning. I didn't have time earlier today.

The LFS guy can't come tonight, so he's coming at 9am tomorrow. I'm just frustrated that I can't do my own water change, is all.

We'll see what the Spectrapure guy and the LFS guy say tomorrow...

**golfish** · 10-11-2006, 10:41 PM

Holly, don't worry to much about it..If your able to keep a Sea hare alive then that's all you need to rid the tank of the hair, Plus the hair will use up all your PO4's..

Check out the hannah Colorimeter..If your plan is to stay in this hobby for a long time then its a very good investment.

Your doing all the right things.

Just another thought..What's the good water to bad water ratio your getting off your RO\DI unit?

10-09-2006, 02:15 PM	#1
Holly Just Moved In Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Vancouver WA, USA Posts: 46	Phosphates I've had a horrible two wks. First, I got an outbreak of white spot that killed a few fish. I medicated with Kick Ich, and as that was ending, I noticed that my pH was getting critically low, but I couldn't figure out why. Everything else seemed in line. I got the pH up, and now I've got a huge spike in phosphates, despite the fact that I had put in a new phosphate sponge a couple days ago when I got an algae bloom. A few other fish have now died. I have no idea if each of these are interrelated or each is just happening individually. Oddly, most of my corals look fine. It's the fish and inverts that aren't doing well. Is there anything I can use that works faster than the phosphate sponge, since it doesn't seem to be doing anything..? I was taking it out after 48hrs and replacing it with new soon after. My RO/Di is only 25gpd, so my ability to do a huge water change is somewhat limited, though I've got it going right now. (180g tank) I put in my bi-weekly small dose of both Kent essential elements and Kent coral vite last week. Could that affect phosphate? What can cause a sudden spike in phosphates? Thanks

10-09-2006, 02:38 PM	#2
wozza Mayor Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: uk, devon Posts: 886	hmmm...just thinking aloud here. But maybe someone added a load of food with out you knowing? james __________________ Betta lifespace 16lts OH YEAH!!!! going live in sept

10-09-2006, 05:21 PM	#4
wozza Mayor Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: uk, devon Posts: 886	im by far no expert but ide say that sound about right. james __________________ Betta lifespace 16lts OH YEAH!!!! going live in sept

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10-09-2006, 03:36 PM	#3
Holly Just Moved In Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Vancouver WA, USA Posts: 46	Not possible, unless one of our babysitters has purposely sabbataged us! My husband never touches tank-related stuff, and my kids are 2.5 and 4.5 yrs of age. I'm giving them as much as they can eat in about 3 minutes, twice a day. I don't think that's too much..?

10-09-2006, 10:24 PM	#5
golfish Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Alta Loma,Ca Posts: 2,943	The best thing I have used for PO4's is Zeovit...That's a little costly to get started and probably not the best advice. What are you using to test PO4's? I have yet to find a test kit that will give me any reading at all. First thing I would do is change your DI resin or cart. Are you using a DI cart that's vertical or horizontal? The horizontal carts don't filter as well. FWIW, I use a Hannah Colorimeter to test PO4's. Once I see a reading over 0.01 off my last DI cart I know its time to change (I use two DI carts). The test kits I've used have ALWAY's given me a zero reading, I hate em. I'd say do a water change but that might do more harm if your RO\DI unit isn't doing its job.

10-10-2006, 01:31 AM	#6
Holly Just Moved In Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Vancouver WA, USA Posts: 46	I'll look into the Zeovit. No amt of money is too much to save my beasties! Unfortunately the two LFSs are CLOSED on Monday and Tuesday, so I'm kinda stuck until Wed morn I have the Salifert PO4 profi test kit (with 60 tests). I haven't had probs with the readings on any of my Salifert tests, but who knows? We just got our RO/DI less than a month ago, so it's almost brand spankin' new. We have the Spectrapure 25gpd RO/DI unit, vertical. Thanks

10-10-2006, 07:42 PM	#7
golfish Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Alta Loma,Ca Posts: 2,943	That is IMO the best maker of RO units for our hobby. I've used one for going on 8 years now. Just to be safe, have you tested the PO4's coming off the DI? if so what are they and what does the tank test at?

10-10-2006, 09:12 PM	#8
Holly Just Moved In Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Vancouver WA, USA Posts: 46	No, but since you guys asked about it, I ran some water through the RO/DI and tested it. You're right. It's phosphate level is between 2-3!! The thing is BRAND NEW. What can I do? I tested ammonia/nitrite/nitrate a couple days ago and it was 0/0/trace. I just tested again, and it's crazy high. Nitrite 0.3 and nitrate 5. CRITICAL. How can it get there from zero in a couple of days? I put in a nitrate sponge. So NOW the nitrites are killing them. First the ICH, then the pH yo-yoing (got down as low as 7.9 briefly!), and now the nitrites. "When it rains, it pours." I called a new LFS this morning and asked them to please bring me a huge water change, but they're totally booked up until tomorrow. The LFS we've used in the past, the guy is just a nasty arsepain to deal with. This new guy's going to try to bring me 50gallons tomorrow for a big water change, if possible, and do an overall maintenance check on everything, to see if he can peg the problem (other than the crappy RO/DI). New guy was very nice on the phone =) Thanks for the head's up about the DI. I would've never known to test it. I called Spectrapure and "everyone's gone for the day already" so they'll call me back sometime tomorrow >=0 ..I get that folks get to go home from work, but my tank is imploding, people!!! It's a Reef Holocaust!! I can't do any kind of water change, obviously, since my RO/DI is producing phosphates like a fertilizer farm. Anything I can do other until tomorrow than the the sponges and reef carbon?? By the time they get here tomorrow, I'll need 267 sea hares to take down all the hair algae. HA Meanwhile, I tested a slew of stuff today, and here it is: Temp 79.5F SG 1.025 ORP 330 pH 8.25 (still workin to get this up) ALK 220 Ca 480 Ammonia 0 Nitrites 0.3 !!! Nitrates 5 ! Phosphates 3 !!! Iron - trace Iodine 0.2 Boron 8ppm Mg 1455g/L Yes, I actually bought all those tests. Silly, I know. =/ I'll add some Coral-Vite and Iodine tomorrow after the water change, since the Iodine and Iron are low. Thanks for all your help

10-11-2006, 10:00 PM	#9
golfish Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Alta Loma,Ca Posts: 2,943	Holly, The people at Spectrapure are real good to deal with..you might want to check the PO4 levels on your tap water. They'll probably want to know that. How much water do you think you've ran through that DI cart? They don't last very long if you have bad water. You might want to add a second DI cart and start using refillable cartridges. Here's a link to a site that has a pretty good add on cart, plus they have DI resin and extra refillable carts. HTH Mark

10-11-2006, 10:08 PM	#10
Holly Just Moved In Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Vancouver WA, USA Posts: 46	I talked to the guy this morning, and he said I had to get KH, pH, NO3, PO4, and conductivity on tap water, RO only water, then RO/DI water, then call him back. I'm in the process of doing that right now, so I'll call him with the results first thing in the morning. I didn't have time earlier today. The LFS guy can't come tonight, so he's coming at 9am tomorrow. I'm just frustrated that I can't do my own water change, is all. We'll see what the Spectrapure guy and the LFS guy say tomorrow...

10-11-2006, 10:41 PM	#11
golfish Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Alta Loma,Ca Posts: 2,943	Holly, don't worry to much about it..If your able to keep a Sea hare alive then that's all you need to rid the tank of the hair, Plus the hair will use up all your PO4's.. Check out the hannah Colorimeter..If your plan is to stay in this hobby for a long time then its a very good investment. Your doing all the right things. Just another thought..What's the good water to bad water ratio your getting off your RO\DI unit?

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