[MaryHM]

Hi guys...back from Hurricane Harbor (local water park!) and ready to start tackling this thing that jumped up out of no where this morning!

First of all, let me say that I do NOT think the NY legislature is out to get us...just like the CA legislature wasn't out to get us with the whole Caulerpa fiasco. The problem with both bills is the wording. It is very important that we attack any and all legislation that if passed has the POTENTIAL to be used against us- whether immediately or in the future. Once a bill passes, it's a heck of a lot harder to get it changed. Best to get it changed now...better safe than sorry.

I will start working on a petition first thing tomorrow. Please, everyone just sit tight and let's get this thing organized. All of you worked together and got the Caulerpa bill amended- we can do it again!

Until tomorrow....

[ranaman]

Mary, the lawmakers may not be out to get us, but there are groups that don't like the idea of our hobby. I personally feel this is like the wild bird ban. The key is to get key states to pass the law so even if there is no federal law it closes down the activity. When there was the humane transport bill pending The Tampa Tribune asked the local PETA chapter about the statement by one of the large fish farms that they would be put out of business, their reply was this would be a very good thing.
As far as the letting teenagers drive, I'll take the Uncle Buck defense I know what teenagers are like since I was once one.

[fishguy_8]

i agree we should get the wording changed because you know there is a group of people just waiting for a bill to be passed worded bad enough so that they can use the loop holes to try and ban what we are doing.....i honestly dont see how it could ever happen but better safe than sorry. i just hope something like this never gets brought up in illinois....show me where to sign
Jon

[MaryHM]

I've completed my research, made some phone calls, and scoped out a plan of action. Who to contact, what to say, and a sample letter has been posted at

http://www.reefsource.com/new_york_ban.htm

Get busy guys! I would really appreciate it if you would post any contact you make and the responses you get.

[KrakenSeas]

I just called New york and talked to betheny(the bills author)and she said that "We are changing the bill to say that coral,fish or any other aquarium animals will be cosidered a companion animals".She asked me to let everyone know.Thanks for letting us get involed MaryHM if this keeps going are hobby will be dead in a few years.

[MaryHM]

Do not think the war is won until we read the amended bill. It is still VERY important for everyone to continue contacting the people involved. When I spoke with Bethany this morning, she asked me how I would like the addition under Companion Animals to read. I stated it to her and she wrote it down. I will not believe it is going to be added though until I see it for myself!

[MarkS]

My problem with this bill is not the possible impact on the aquarium industry in New York, but rather the reptile industry.

Reptiles should not be banned due to negligence. A constrictor will not(in 99% of cases) kill a human with malicious intent. Most constrictions occur due to lack of knowledge on how to handle large snakes and negligence.

Most adults are strangled when they wrap a snake around their neck to show off or for some other bit of stupidity. Snakes do not have arms to grab on to something. They wrap their bodies around an object. If this object is your neck, expect to die.

Babies on the other hand, might be killed because the snake thought that the little animal would make a good meal, although this is unlikely since most large snakes never reach that kind of size in the home. Most likely it is due to the same reasons as adults being killed. I feel that a parent who would allow their child, under the age of say 15, to play with a large constrictor should have their parental rights terminated. It would only be a matter of time before an accident happens and it would almost always prove fatal.

Truth of the matter is that more kids are killed by family pets (i.e., dogs) every year than are bitten by pet snakes. The number of fatalities by snakes in the US is one or two every FEW years. And again, this is due to negligence.

Just my thoughts,
Mark

[FishKid]

Thats how I feel, and plus, I want to own a Cayman when i get older

If anything should be banned, it should be guns! Guns kill far more every year than animal attacks of any nature!

thats how i feel
mark

[MaryHM]

The reptile industry is already on top of this situation and are representing their side of the hobby.

[Biomanjcs72]

Negligence...

Some guy in a rural (but developing) area about 20 miles outside of town lost a SPITTING COBRA and waited a week to call the police.....They took the rest of his snakes away. He apparently only kept venomous snakes as "companions" but I'm pretty sure he was just showing off for his friends getting the snakes to strike the glass. (they showed a couple of his snakes doing just that on the news.)

Insert: here is a link to the online article,

http://www.msnbc.com/local/wvtm/nbcohz8s9oc.asp

Fishkid: do you really want a 2 meter long prehistoric carnivore with a brain the size of an orange as your pet....Think long and hard about this one my friend...(besides, they need a pond to live in, not the pool on top of your building)

[MarkS]

Poisonious snakes should be banned Federally unless you are milking them for their venom.

These cannot even be kept as a pet. You cannot hold or touch them without the risk of getting bitten. Most states, counties and cities already outlaw them.

Mark

[FishKid]

Yeah, I will get one, I will also live in a mansion, and own a Yatch! Its all Pipe dreams, but I was thinking about it, once i get a house, build a nice green house, with a croc pond

Fishkid: do you really want a 2 meter long prehistoric carnivore with a brain the size of an orange as your pet....Think long and hard about this one my friend...(besides, they need a pond to live in, not the pool on top of your building)

I have seven S. Nattereri, what kind of question is that?
Second to fish, large reptiles are my favorite animals! and I do not want any stupid law to ruin my dream! (besides, If it came down to it, I'd move to PA and get one there)

I hope that really re-visit this bill!

mark

[petpoor]

MarkS,
Last time I checked you can't hold or pet your fish either so what is the difference? The vast majority of keepers who have"Venomous " animals are very level headed and cautious people as they recognize the risks involved with keeping these animals. In an earlier post you also said reptiles should not be banned because of neglegence does this not also apply to Venomous reptiles?

I would almost be willing to bet if you checked statistics the total number of venomous bites received by keepers of Venomous reptiles is miniscule compared to small children picking up snakes in the wild or adults trying to catch them with no experience or messing with one they just killed or found on the road "dead". A freshly killed snake can still envenomate by muscle reflex for several minutes if opportunity presents itself.

Bills such as this one feed on peoples fear, if they are afraid of something they think no one is justified in having it and are quick to say make it illegal. Just like dog attacks they usually are quick to point out it was a Rotty or Pit Bull and that is a bad thing but far more bites occur from small dogs you just don't hear of that, it isn't newsworthy and does not strike fear in people. A poodle bite on a child that requires 35 stitches isn't nearly as headline grabbing as one that screams "large breed dog mauls child", where will the line be drawn as to what is considered safe and safe for who?

As a breeder and keeper of reptiles I do not currently own any Venomous snakes because I have 2 kids that live at home and are typical curious children and I am afraid of their curiousity. When they are grown and no longer live at home, I may or may not choose to keep venomous, but it would at least be nice to make the choice myself not let some bureaucrat make that decision for me.

As far as the guy "showing out getting his snake to strike the glass" he is not real bright as that is a sure way of getting your snake what could prove to be a fatal injury. A careless keeper of that quality would most likely be less than 1% percentile of all Venomous keepers/collectors.

Tom

[Biomanjcs72]

Mark, Nattereri are not Crocodilians (or even reptiles, for that matter).
I used to want a Caiman too.
They still have not found the spitting cobra in the afore mentioned post. He had the snake in a tank with "pasteboard" on top of it. He thinks that Rats chewed through the pasteboard and allowed the snake to escape. The "Authorities" have set traps for it(with live rats), but they also said that his yard was the perfect hiding place for snakes, dense, unkept foliage and vegetation and lots of abandoned cars and old tires. Yes, I agree that this guy probably represents about or less than 1% of the hobby, but all of that 1% are in AL

[FishKid]

It looks like the law is gonna go through, anyone who plans on owning on of those animals, should order them now, so you can get a liscence to own it. I remember reading somewhere, that owners prior to the bill can keep the animals


'mark

[FishKid]

mary, whats the good word??

mark

[scott55]

Fishkid

If anything should be banned, it should be guns! Guns kill far more every year than animal attacks of any nature!

To Quote some else"Guns dont kill people, People kill people" a gun is harmless untill it is put into the wrong hands.

But if we are truley concerned about human life we would ban All Automobiles, more people are killed in cars in a week than by guns in a year.

Sorry for the rant but I am a card carrying member of the NRA.

Scott

[FishKid]

Hey scott, We all like guns especially me! but I think you know what I ment, find something that is actually hurting people, if you want to ban something! (you meaning them)

mark

[Doug1]

Hey FishKid when you get your pipe dream Mansion dont forget to hire armed bodyguards. I bet Rosie can recommend good ones
Or you can hire me, I'm one of those card carrying people too

[SPasse]

Hi All,

Here is the latest from one of the New York Assemblymen Paul Tonko:

“Scott,
We will be adding fish, coral, invertebrates and aquaria animals to the
exempt/companion list along with all birds. More changes are under
consideration as well. Please contact Bethany Schumann in my Albany office
at 518-455-5197 with any further concerns.”

Regards,

Scott Passe