[tray262]

Ok, So I've been dealing with a bad running of algea problems. First is cyno, I've kicked that out, no problems. But now it's Hair algea and it's everywhere. I'm manually removing it about every three days. (Ok maybe 5 days). I think I know what was the main casue, my skimmer was not keeping up at all. Now I've got a great skimmer pulling out a lot of junk. It's not growing nearly as fast as it was growing. I also have since put a light and macro algea in the refug. I've ran all the test and everything looks good, I know there's false results there because of all the algea. So here are my questions, What next ? Should I pull the rock out and clean it ? Do I wait for this to go away ? I'm just really getting discouraged. The display looks terriable. All my corals are doing well, I've got to keep the hair off of it. Please advise. Oh yeah, I'm running that phosbuster/carbon mix in my oceanclear. Thanks guys, help me keep my hope alive.

[leebca]

You may need to more aggressively have your macro algae compete with the hair. What kind of macro algae do you have growing? How long has it been there?

Because of the hair, your readings can be lower or low, but I'd still like to know the phosphate and nitrates in the aquarium. You are addressing the organics and that is good, but the hair needs primarily nitrates and phosphates and light mostly. The bacterial decay/decomposition of organics can feed the hair through the production of phosphates and nitrates (See: Nitrates - Origin & Controls). Where do you think the organic material collected in the skimmer is coming from?

Are you putting any additives into the water (i.e., trace elements, iodine, iron, etc.)? What if any foods are you adding to the water?

Have you tested your source water for nitrates and phosphates and any other source of nitrogen (organics, ammonia, nitrites). What do you use to replenish evaporated water with?

Has the aquarium matured? (See: The Mature Aquarium). When did it last cycle?

Besides the above considerations, you may wish to get your skimmer to do more work. The skimmer should be cleaned no less than once every other day if it doing a good job for you during this time. Clean it daily if you can. Are you sure the skimmer has been sized properly for your aquarium? Most aquarists will agree that if you have a 100 gallon system you'll want a skimmer rated by the manufacturer for a 200+ gallon system, or at least double the actual system size.

[Reefland]

You might consider a Lawnmower Blenny (Salarius fasciatus) for some internal support on removing the hair algae.

[tray262]

Hey Lee,
Thanks for the post.
My readings are :
nitrate 0
nitrite 0
phos 0
cal 410-420
As far as lighting goes I've got t5's 4 atinics 2 10k, and two 6.5k bulbs. I running them about 9 hours a day, 1.5 antics, 6 all, 1.5 antics ='s my 9 hours. I run the light 24/7 on the refug. it's a 96 power compact fixture. I was think of running my tank dark for two or so days to maybe help kill off some of the algea, any thoughts on that idea ? I just do wanna hurt my corals. All of my corals are doing great as I stated before.

Also, I'm going to be doing a water change this weekend, and I was thinking about putting my "old water into a tub, and pulling most of my rock out and scrubing it down with a brush to help remove some of it. Would this be ok, or will I be doing more bad then good. I have tons of coriline algea on my glass but not much on my rocks, is that normal ? That's why I wasn't too worried about scrubing my rocks.

On the skimmer Lee, I have a skimmer rated for 400 gallons. and I've got 150 plus a 50 gal sump, but I have 4" of sand and probally about 200lbs of rock, So I've guess 120gals in the tank and maybe 30-35 in the sump. So the skimmer is plenty big.

Scott, I have an algea blenny, he doesn't touch the stuff, Is it ok to have both a algea blenny and a lawnmower blenny ? I have a 150 with lots of rock ?

I'm using r/o water for top offs and water changes, I have not personally tested it, my friend used a TDS meter said that was reading fine. But I will test for Nitrate and phos in that. I hope that's ok.

I think I will up my water changes I've been doing about 30 gals once a month. I could use some recommendation on that part.

Thanks LEE, Thanks Scott.

[Reefland]

Is this what you have:
Salarius fasciatus - Google Image Search

[tray262]

Yep,That's jabba the hut. Are second fish.

[Reefland]

And he isn't interested in the hair algae, huh? How long have you had him? What does he eat?

[tray262]

I've had him about 5 months or so, he's lazy and fat, He eats flakes and mysis and that's about it.

[Reefland]

Doesn't sound like he is going to be helpful to you then.

Check out these links:
http://www.reefland.com/rho/0905/medprod6.php
http://www.reefland.com/rho/1105/medprod7.php
http://www.reefland.com/rho/0106/medprod8.php

[leebca]

Originally Posted by tray262

I was think of running my tank dark for two or so days to maybe help kill off some of the algae, any thoughts on that idea ?

My perspective that it isn't 'reasonable' to try to attack the algae by starving them of light. The basic fact is that light is only one thing they need, and they can and will adapt to low light levels. It's the nutrients and food they are getting you want to attack. As far as the corals go, they can live without light for days if they are healthy.

I hate to have you scrub live rock. The beneficial organisms will be removed and some of the bacteria will be removed. The bacteria are extremely 'sticky' and stay well attached to things, but they won't hold up to scrubbing. Still, scrubbing will be the most efficient attack on the algae. Avoid scrubbing any spots that don't have algae or algae you can spend some time picking off.

Skimmer sounds right. Are you keeping it clean? During this 'event' keep it clean and running to its optimum potential. People think the skimmer removes all protein, but actually the skimming action only favors certain kinds of protein. Thus, having an organic absorbing material (Renew, activated carbon, etc.) in a filter would help.

Definitely step up the water changes. Also scout out possible sources for those organics and any nitrates/phosphates that may be getting in. Your source water is probably okay, but worth checking as you say you are going to do. I am conservative :slap: so I end up checking my source water once a week! I have caught the 'city' and my water purification system failure only three times in 10 years -- but I caught it. With a 700 gallon system and several thousand $ of fishes, I can't rationalize not checking routinely.

You didn't mention the macro algae in the refugium you have in competition with the hair. That might be a place to improve the uptake of those nutrients the hair is getting.

Those are my only other thoughts.

[tray262]

UPDATE: So I spent most of Saturday scrubing rocks. What a sucky job that is. I still need to clean the glass it's still pretty bad.

Lee : I'm keeping the skimmer clean, about everyother day I'm cleaning it. It's producing a little bit of skimmate, I think I'm going to turn it up a little to produce some more skimmate, Basically over skim the tank for a couple of days. And replace with fresh water. Figure that should get rid of more stuff. I'm really hoping for the hair not to come back.

Also I did about a 35gal water change this weekend. I'm planning on doing about another 15 gallons this weekend coming, and doing about 10 gallons a week after that. Do you think that 10 gallons a week is enough for a 200 gallon system ? I'm really hoping so because ten gallons is managable for for me. between the two jobs.

I am going to run some phos-ban/carbon mix in the aqua clear filter I have running to help knock some of the phosphates out of the, along with aggerisive skimming, and growing macro algea. With all that being said, I don't know what else to do other then wait it out and hope for the best. Anything else you guys would suggest doing ?

Thanks.

[tray262]

Scott thanks for the links, I've read them like 3 times, I'm still unsure of what's adding the problems. But I will go on to say that with the old skimmer I had lots of problems with it, I had it overflow the bottle a few. Most of which went back into the tank. (Rookie mistake) I've have no such problems out of the new skimmer at all. So maybe that stuff dumping back into the tank cause way more problems then I thought. I hope I can get this straightened out asap. I've been getting really discuriaged about the tank as of late with all the problems.

[Reefland]

Have you ever thought about doing a large water change (50%) and while doing so, taking the worst rocks out and scrubbing them clean?

[leebca]

Small (10%) frequent (weekly) water changes is a good steady stream of nutrients for the marine life (both the good and bad). If you want to change weekly, I'd suggest no less than 10% or 20 gallons for that system.

Choose a larger, less frequent water change to remove pollutants faster. 25% every two or three weeks in the beginning and then 25% per month.

Skimming takes out some proteins. The carbon mix is good. It should address the organics that aren't skimmed. You might consider running a charge of activated carbon as is, without the mix.

[tray262]

UPDATE Again, It's been almost three months total. I'm still dealing with the Hair. It seems to be dropping off alot. I hope. I took an old AquaClear HOB filter and put it on the tank without floss, I put a bag of Carbon in and almost a whole container of PhosBan ($20 worth, lol) I knocked all of the Hair off the glass with a scrapper. But since I've scrubbed the rocks it's grown back in a lot of spots, but it has seemed to have slowed down a lot. After I knock the algea off I normal put a piece of floss in the filter to catch all the stuff floating around and I blow off the rocks and just keep trying to get the stuff out of the tank. Then I take the filter out. I only run the floss for a few hours to "clean it up". I also have since been doing water changes, I've been doing 20-25gallon about once a week, Last week I did 2- 20 gal changes. And about to do another tomorraw. So one every couple days. 4 days or so. Everything in my tank seems heathly as can be, all the corals and the fish. So I really don't get it. I've still got the macro algea growing and it looks like it's growing pretty well, although It's really hard to tell. But it seems to be getting bigger. It is Cheato that's the only stuff I have in there. So I hope that's the good stuff. Also I'm still skimming a lot, and keeping it clean. bout everyother day. So that's looking good. I'd say about 30% of the hair has grown back from the orignals scrubbing, But it doesn't look like it's coming back much at all. Yesterday I turned off my lights and I'm going to leave them off today and towarrow, 3 days off total, I don't think I will hurt my corals. Now I'm just hoping that most it will die off within the next three days. And with anyluck it won't come back.


Also I've been changing my charcol out every three days. They say it's most of the used in the 1st day from what I've read.

Anymore advise would be great.

Thanks,

[leebca]

Considering that hair algae enjoys the availability of micro nutrients and trace elements, I would stop the frequent water changes. You want to starve the hair algae of even the trace elements, to some extent.

Activated carbon is good for organics for about 6 days when the organic level is high (e.g., no skimmer). Running the same carbon for two weeks is not a major concern. After a few days, the carbon starts to take on some organics that are complexed with trace elements.

The two above things, done together, will reduce some of the trace elements available to the hair algae.

Have you ever tested your source water for nitrates, ammonia, and phosphates? Was is your source water? and the water you use to replace evaporated water?

You seem to be gaining on the problem!

[Frogfish]

I would keep up the scrubbing and manual removal. That along with reducing the phosphates should clear it up.

I had a major HA outbreak a year or so ago. Everyone said not to scrub in the tank as any small piece that settled would grow again. Well I was not worried about small pieces growing I was worried about massive ammounts of removal. I would pluck HA every day at times. Concentrate on one rock at a time. After you pluck it, scrub the rock with a toothbrush to get everything.

I was fortunate that I have a couple of tangs in the tank that would pick at it if the HA was not too dense. Well my manual removal would get the dense stuff and the tangs would get it as it started to grow back.

I would also look at any frozen food you have as a major phosphate source. Rinse the food through a fine mesh net with RO or tank water after it is dethawed. That will help to remove some of the phosphate. You may also want to look at reducing your feeding, depending on what you have in the tank.

Finally, test your makeup water and top off water for nitrates and phosphates.

[tray262]

Well, I hate HA lol, that's a given. To awsners a few of the questions, I have tested all of my sources, ever think so far reads 0, I use RO/DI I have a 50GPD unit. I do need to try and use a TDS meter. I really hope I'm gaining on the problem, I can't take the stress, lol.

Frogfish, I also have been removing the hair manually with a toothbrush, and it doesn't really seem to be growing where it lays, but I really want to start to see it dying off the rocks, which has not started to happen yet either. So I'm in high hopes to seeing that happen, It wouldn't hurt my feelings to go home and see all the HA falling off the rocks.

LEE How often would you be doing water changes, because not doing freq. water changes is reverse of what I've been reading on getting rid of this stuff. And I'm still skimming the hell out of tank.

[CSeaSee]

I'm glad you are starting to get control of it! If it's a real bad outbreak, it can take a long time for your tank to recover- keep going. If you decide to continue your water changes, you may consider turning your rocks upside down after you scrub them (if you can do such a thing in your tank). Without light, the little nubs of algae that remain will die off, and the nutrients contained in them will enter the water column, which can then be exported (WC, skimmer, carbon, macroalgae). When I had HA problems, I'd do a 30-40% WC once a week. I also did everything you did, and vaccuumed my crushed coral bed like crazy. You have a DSB, right?

[tray262]

Thank you, It seems like there is hope after all, this has been a real killer for me, and yeah 4-5" of sand, not super fine sand.