[chefrt]

Now I’m really confuse, do I have to go or not to with the idea of using sunlight as day light for aquarium. I still have about 2 week for my LR fully cure before I can do the changes.

[Firefish]

I guess what you can take from all this is, as long as your water nutrients aren't too high you may be fine with a few hours of sun light a day over your tank.
I personally wouldn't do it. I've been keeping salt water tanks for over 12 years. I always try to keep things in an optimal state and I can't see any reason why any one would want to use sunlight in a reef tank. IMHO, it takes away from the corals natural beauty aesthetically speaking and it opens up more room for error should you ever have less then optimal water conditions.
Some reef keepers like to work on their tank every other day keeping track of their numbers and doing water changes every week or so.
I prefer to check my water conditions maybe once a week (or every other) and do water changes maybe every 6 weeks or so... This works for me.
There's really no definitive answer, everyone has their own successful way of keeping their aquarium.
I actually know a guy who never does water changes. Just top off and supplements... his reef looks unbelievable and he's going on 5-6 years now. He's the one who sold me on the "refugium". Ever since I added one, I stopped using my skimmer. I actually sold my skimmer years ago.

[CSeaSee]

To quote Anthony Calfo, in his "Book of Coral Propagation" on page 90 (Calfo is a leader in this hobby, and knows much, much more than most of us are aware exists), "an aquarist might ask if it's really worth it to use natural sunlight. To that, I can only say that one will never understand as long as they stand on the other side of the fence. Coral propagation in natural sunlight is incomparable. As I sit here writing this, I'm looking at fragments of Siderastrea radians that a local shop obtained. The specimens were bleached nearly white from the stress of import. I fragmented the small colony into five pieces when I brought it home, and spread it under different lighting. I did not do this for the purpose of experimentation, but rather to increase my chance that some part of it might survive. In two weeks, the fragment receiving full sun from the path of an overhead skylight is almost fully pigmented and nearly on par. Another piece receiving indirect window sunlight looks reasonably good. The remaining fragments under artificial lights look just as bleached as the pieces still in my friend's shop, and not much better than the condition of import."

While many of us are still learning this hobby, this guy's out there teaching it. Take what you will.

[kevinpo]

Now I’m really confuse,

As with most aspects of this hobby you will have to choose the path yourself
It has been well documented that natural sunlight works well in maintaining SPS corals. There are many commercial farms that use it exclusively. At 2 meters (the distance many farms grow corals) the light is full spectrum. It's only after 3 meters that there is a significant drop-off in the longer light wavelengths.

It is also well documented that man made sunlight will also produce a beautiful reef.
Keeping light bulbs at their intended intensity and spectrum is also a good idea. As bulbs age the intensity drops off rapidly towards the end of their life cycle which leads to the increase of zooxanthellae in coral tissue. Zooxanthellae are coffee brown and if the numbers are high enough will turn the coral very brown. Note that the coral is not sick or dieing just adjusting to the light intensity. On the flip side, light can be too intense (natural or man made) and the corals become very pale with almost no color but cream with colored tips.

Usually the biggest problem with natural sunlight in a closed system is the IR (infra red) light that produces heat. So if you do decide to use some natural light be sure to keep an eye on the tank temperature.

Here is a link to a tank that uses both natural and artificial light:
Tank of the Month - February 2006 - Reefkeeping.com

And here is my tank with just artificial light.

Regards,
Kevin
On a side note:
Thank you both CSeaSee and Firefish for your valuable input and keeping it civil

[CSeaSee]

It's been a while since I've had a really good discussion about something...

I'll leave the protein skimmer/no protein skimmer discussion alone, though.

[chefrt]

To keep nutrients low not a problem, I can do 20% water change on every 2 week event every week not a problem ( I used Fresh Saltwater taken from the sea ) and with this changes I will reduce the fish in the tank from 12 to 6 small fish only, it will be less food to put in the tank for fish consume. I have another tank with few coral in it, so the other fish will go into this tank.
Everyday I spent about half hour in the morning and about 1 hour and some time up to 2-3 hour in the evening with the tank, do cleaning and checking.

[Firefish]

Kevin! wow! That tank is breathless! How long has it been set up?

I agree Carl, it's been awhile since I've had a discussion with someone with strong convictions about different aspects of the hobby. I have a dozen or so reef books on my shelve and none really touch base on whether or not natural sun is desirable in a home reef. I didn't mean to sound like an a-hole.

I used to have my skimmer set up on a timer, 3 hours per day. Then I met a guy down at the lfs who doesn't use any mechanical filtration or skimmer and only does maybe one water change per year if that... His tank looks so good, bright corals, healthy fish & no algae problems. I was at first inclined to believe he was just lazy, but when I saw the set up he had, that clearly wasn't the case. He helped me set up my refugium and I began using my skimmer a little less every day, and now I don't use one at all, it's been years since I've used a carbon filter or skimmer, but I do water changes every 5-6 weeks.

I think one of the most interesting things about this hobby is all the different ways you find people running successful reef tanks. It seems to me, coral & live stock can be quite efficient at adapting to their environment. A lot more so then I once thought.

[kevinpo]

Thank you for your kind words. This June will be six years.

I also ran a 125 gallon SPS reef tank with a 40 gallon sump for 2 years without a skimmer or any filtration. I did change 18 gallons of water a week.

I have tried may different types of tanks and with a little tweaking all have turned out pretty well.
Here is a picture of my old 90 gallon I set up in 1996 (the picture was taken in 1997) when I first got into SPS. No skimmer just a sump.

Regards,
Kevin

[zhenya]

Originally Posted by firefish

I think one of the most interesting things about this hobby is all the different ways you find people running successful reef tanks. It seems to me, coral & live stock can be quite efficient at adapting to their environment. A lot more so then I once thought.

Speaking of adaptation.., corals adapt to many things in our tanks, from weird chemistry to weird lighting... Having said that, I kept my 75g tank skimerless(well, almost..) fro nearly 4 years with good results. In fact some corals had broken surface and needed pruning back. Then everything started to die.... And now everything is on the rebound. The moral of this story is that coral reefs adapt to great many things, little fragments that we keep in our tanks show us how they do it. We just need to look and learn.

Kevin, gorgeous tanks my friend.

[chefrt]

Ok guy, I don’t want to change the topic, but I really wanted to know without skimmer how do you keep your tank clean and healthy. Kevinpo, Firefish and Zhenya please email me the total set-up, equipments and how you do maintain it. I like to run my tank without skimmer like yours.
Thank you in advance.
Regards,
chefrt

[Firefish]

I'm no Marine Biologist (though 12 years in this hobby should be equivalent to at least an associates in marine biology )
When I went skimmerless, I did it over the course of a few weeks. I made sure I had ample amounts of LR, a healthy sand bed and a somewhat thriving refugium.
I would cut the skinning time down a few minutes each day and eventually removed it. I still left the skimmer setup in my 155 gal in case of an emergency but the air line was pinched off, so it was just circulating water. In my 72 gal, I have a 35 gal sump / refugium set up. The refugium light stays on 24/7. I replaced the bioballs with 30lbs of tennis ball size LR rubble. The water flows over the refugium overflow and trickles over the lr rubble before being pumped back up to the main tank. I have a total of 107 gallons of water flowing through the 72 gallon tank (minus whatever the lLR & DSB displaced) and well over 200lbs of LR.
I also don't keep a real heavy bioload in the tank. Only 5 medium / small fish with a moderate clean up crew. I do about a 10 - 15 gallon water change every month or so. As far as the coral supplements go, I use half the recommended dose.
I don't know if my tank will continue to do well in this manner, so far so good. All the numbers are good and everything look alive and well

[kevinpo]

Ok guy, I don’t want to change the topic,

I think it would be fine to talk about it here since it is your thread anyway

Here is a picture of my 40 gallon. You can see the windows behind it. There is just eel grass and chaeto for filtration. I change 6 gallons each week (sometimes I skip a week). I set it up August '05 after talking with Anthony at the Mid Colombia conference.

The second picture is of a 125 gallon that was running for about 2 years without a skimmer. It had a 40 gallon sump with no plant matter. I changed 18 gallons a week in this one.

Regards,
Kevin
PS: I also have a 185, 450, 500, 600, and 650 that utilize skimming along with algae to maintain 0 nitrate readings. So I have nothing against skimmers I just like to try different things

[chefrt]

Thank you I appreciate that. Your tank look very nice and the water pretty clear.


Actually I have 1 50g tank (about 1 year plus) running without skimmer, this tank I set-up for hospital tank, but now because of I have a lot of coral, so some of the coral I place it in this tank for about 2 month. It look good, so far I don’t have any problem with the coral and the water. I plan to buy a skimmer but now I don’t think I going to buy the skimmer for this tank. I change the water every month about 40% water, using FSW.

I plan to set-up another 50g tank soon.

In my present tank I have LR about 150lbs and 40lbs in the sump, soon I going to add another 110lbs into the tank this will make LR about 300lbs in total and LS about 90lbs. The tank is 120g and sump about 50g.