Why higher temperature after DSB added?

[Steve]

This past weekend I emptied out everything from my tank except for about 1/3 of the water and added a DSB of Southdown sand and mixed in the special grade Carib Sea sand that was in there. I also added a rock rack from Reefland. Now my temperature has increased to 82+ degrees. Can anybody think about why this would happen? I have already removed the heater to make sure it wasn't that. It is a 120gal AGA with 2 built in overflows. It has a Ecosystem filter with a Gen-X water pump. There is a VHO 4x110watt hood from Champion. There is a fan in the hood and it is working. The Gen-X pump is air cooled. It is hot to the touch, but I don't know if it is more than normal. The Southdown sand majorly clouded up the tank and created a thick white foam that floated on top of the water. Everything turned white. Could some of this have coated the inside of the water pump and thus, making it hotter? If so, how would you clean something like this? Any ideas?

Thanks.
Steve

[reefhead]

82 is ideal!!!!!!!!!

[organicreefer]

reefhead:who told you 82 was "ideal".i have alot of marine books and not one says 82 is ideal.ALL of my books say between 75-80 is best with somewhere between 76-78 being optimum.................
anyway steve you said youre pump felt hot to the touch after addig sand ..maybe its clogged with silt and running hot?maybe the decrease in overall water capacity after youre additions made the water heat faster?maybe it was just hotter than it had been?just a few things that came to mind as possibilities hth

[Mikeman]

anywhere from 72 to 85 is fine

[Firefish]

I think 82 is ideal also, my tank ranges from 82 - 85 on a daily basis and all the fishies are very happy and the corals are growing bigtime!
From what I've been told the oceans these animals come from are in the mid to high 80's.

[GreenLincoln]

I would disconnect your pump and give it a good cleaning, as it is sure to have a build-up of silt from the sand. Even if this is not causing the heat build up, it would be a good idea to clean it anyway. I would venture to guess that the decreased water capacity from more water displacement may have caused your temp to creep up a bit. You didn't say at what temperature your tank is normally.

Regarding temperatures: The gross median range for all reefs on the planet is 80-83 degrees (Aquarium Fish Magazine, April edition I think, LONG detailed article about it). Very very few reefs on this planet are in the 75-78 range. I keep my tank at 80, now that it is summer, and it will climb to 83-85 on a very hot day. You will see your corals thrive in the higher temperature of 80-83. You need to take into consideration tho, how much the temp will rise on a hot day and adjust accordingly. It is okay to keep your reef cooler, but it slows down the metabolism of the corals to about 70% of their norm. HTH

[organicreefer]

i beleive the areas on reefs where corals most abundantly grow has a temp. range from 77-86 gegress throughout the year...so one might assume its ok to keep youre tank at 86,but youre tank is NOT the ocean.
every tank is its own unique micrcosm. the biological/bacterial action in our tanks is much greater than it is in the ocean,and dissolved oxygen is likely to be lower.if a peice of equipment fails or if something in the tank dies oxygen levels could plummet.(same happens at lower temps but at a much slower rate)
also i beleive the "average"temperature routinely reported by researchers on coral reefs to be 89.6 degrees.

[Steve]

Wow, I didn't realize the coral reefs in the ocean were so warm. My normal temperature before the DSB was 79. It is hanging around 82 now. Right after the addition of the DSB, it went up to around 87. Perhaps the silt is slowly coming off the pump and the temperature is dropping? I will try to clean it as soon as I can. What do you recommend I clean it with and how? Vineger? Just pour it through?

[GreenLincoln]

Im not familiar with your model pump, but if you can disconnect it and run freshwater through it, that will dissolve any salt and sand build up.

[Firefish]

Take the pump apart and just use warm water and a new or very clean tooth-brush. I asked my friend who dives every other week about the water temps, He said that once you get about 10-15 feet deep the temp. goes down and is around 80- 83* but that near shallow water he has seen it in the 90's It realy depends on what type of corals you keep and what level of the ocean they come from, they all have differant temp. and light requirments. IMHO, a tank that hovers around 79-84* will be just fine.

[ravenmore]

Most older books recommend anything from 76 to 78 degrees. This is really being rethought. Most reefers now keep their tanks at higher temps. My tank ranges between 80 and 85. 82 really probably won't hurt anything and isn't much cause for concern.

Do you have glass covers on your tank? If you do, take them off and see if you see a difference.

-Mike

[organicreefer]

ravenmore you refer to "most older books",can you point a source,a"newer book" or author that reccomends temps over say 82(the highest ive seen recomended and thats in the marine aquarium handbook -moe an old book)not trying to interrogate you im just interested and want to learn as much as i can tia,oh and also dont you think youre riding a fine line once you approach say 85 degrees?especially with a dsb?i run my tanks at 80 degrees

[ravenmore]

Dr. Shimek has some articles advocating higher temps. I'm on vacation right now - don't have my links handy. Perhaps someone (Ninong?) would be so kind?

-Mike

[ravenmore]

Actually, I don't necessarily recall anyone recommending anything over 82, but their should be quite a few for temps over 76 to 78.

-Mike

[Rin]

Another possible reason for the higher temp is that the sand is absorbing heat during the day and slowly releasing it back into the water during the cool periods. Ergo, the temperature of the water is warmer when the lights come back on the next day. Hence, the water is warmed a little more.

Your system simply adjusted to a new equilibrium temperature from the sand addition.

My tank runs between 80 and 85. Everyone seems content at this temperature...especially the algae hair and bryopsis.

Other than that, I'm

[SPasse]

Hi All,

After years of keeping my reef tanks at a narrow temperature range of 75 degrees +/- 1 degree with a heater/chiller combo. I now keep my reef tanks at 83 degrees.

This change in philosophy came about after reading a series of articles by Dr. Ron Shimek, a widely published author and professor who holds a Doctorate in Marine Biology, and specializes in invertebrate physiology. One of Dr. Ron’s primary points about temperature is based on species distribution. For any given species, the highest number of total species, and concentration of numbers (Critters for square piece of real-estate) occurs in warmer waters, with an average temperature of around 83-84 degrees.

A given species of coral may also be found in cooler waters, but Ron argues that these are the fringe zones and not the optimum locations, as evidenced by the species distribution.

Species specifically adapted to cooler water are a different issue.

I think that one of the reasons that many of the that books that are circulation advise temperatures in the 75 degree range is related to where many of our critters were collected a few years ago. I.e. the waters off the Florida keys. But as Dr. Ron points out, the Florida keys are a fringe area as compared to say the Western Pacific, in terms of species densities.

Now some will argue that our tanks are not natural reefs and running higher temperatures will cause a system to be unstable and prone to crashes, etc. well perhaps.

On the other hand if we really are putting our critters in suspended animation with abnormally low temperatures, that is certainly something else to think about.

Here are some good links that discuss this issue:

http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/a.../1/default.asp

http://www.rshimek.com/reef/tempsal.htm

And finally for some dissenting opinions:

http://www.reefs.org/library/article...mperature.html

Finally, as to the deep sand bed raising the temperature, I suspect that it is acting as a thermal sink.

Regards,

Scott Passe

[PerryinCA]

Well, I used to feel the same way Scott did, until I had a little spike from about 83, upto the 86-87 area for a day. Tank suffered bleaching, and then RTN, and 7 coral were lost. I have since added some redundant temp controllers, and now keep oit at a steady 80-81. I agree that the wild temps vary, and are often in the mid 80's, but a tank situation is more stressfull than the wild, and leaving yourself more than 2-3 degrees as a margin for error is without a doubt a smart idea. Supposedly coral can handle short spikes into the 90's, but as Randy would say, "Noone ever told my coral that."

Due to my experience, I have dropped my recommended tank temps to 80-81 if managable. Also keep in mind, some of the wild bleaching events occured in waters less from spikes of only 86 degrees. Not some of the hottest equatorial reefs, but due to the fact that our livestock (unless captive) comes from all over the place, settling a little lower seems to make sense to me.

Beign that SPASSE has a chiller, he has more control over his tank than those of us that don't, so he doen't really need to worry about anything...

-Perry

[organicreefer]

personally i think spasse might be the exception,i think the trend of reef aquarists running higher temps has to do with the popularity of metal halide lighting.poeple get the lights and their temps go up but they seem to be "getting away with it " so they they just let it be and point out that the ocean is that warm as justification.you can definitely get away with 83-84 degrees......for how long is the question.1 year 2?im striving for the long term (10+ yrs.)with my tank and i will continue to follow the advice of those who have already had this much or more success.jmo

[Steve]

When I did the DSB conversion (on 6/22-23), I had the windows open in the house and it was very hot and humid. There are glass tops on the tank and after the temperature increase, I did flip them open to help reduce the temperature. The stand is also completley enclosed because the tank sits out in a room and is viewable from 3 sides. I opened up the doors on the stand. I turned the air conditioning on shortly after that and have had the air on for the last week. The temp dropped from around 87 and stabillized at around 82. The temperature is controlled by a programmable thermastat that is set for 78 during the day and 76 at night. Today it has finally cooled off and I turned the air off and opened up all the windows. The temp in the house is 69 and the temperature in the tank has fell to 78! It did this quite quickly compared to how long the temperature has been at 82+. Maybe the water, sand, rock, etc was heated up and just couldn't be cooled down till the temperature was lower. I will keep an eye on it and will clean the pump if the temperature goes up again. Hopefully it won't. Looks like I need to plug the heater back in though.

[SPasse]

Organicreefer,

I don’t want to belabor this point too much as I believe that I have touched upon most of the major points in my post above.

But specifically I would like to comment on some particular points that you made:

1 Yes, metal halide lights have pushed the “average” temperatures in reef tanks upward. But as far as “getting away with it,” I would argue that this is not true. Research biologists like Dr. Ron and Rob Toonen have been “getting away with it” for many years.

2 I am not the exception to the rule. Based on the writings of Dr. Ron and Rob Toonen, many reef keepers are now running their reefs at around 83 to 84 degrees.

3 “I will continue to follow the advice of those who have already had this much or more success.” I would assert that the definition of success should include the consideration of promoting optimum metabolic conditions for our critters.

4 The productivity of DSB ecosystems at “more natural” temperatures is also a documented issue.

Regards,

Scott Passe