[hackman238]

Hello,

I've recently added a frogspawn to my main tank (75 gal), and for the first week or so it looked very good. Since then, the animal has not come out more then 2cm at the very most. The animal is about 3/4 the maximum dept of the tank, vertical and in a moderate flow region. I have a fully recoverd zooanthid colony (thanks to scubaman's advice), about 14 hermit crabs, and a 6 line wrasse and a percula clown. The wrasse occasionally will go near the frogspawn, but has never touched it. Same with the crabs to my knowledge. The zoo colony is on the other side of the tank. The PH and dKH are stable by dip strip tests and hagen master kit tests. An in tank PH meter gives me erratic results, so I do not think its accurate. My temp does swing over the period of the day, and at worst at a rate of 0.25 degrees F per hour. I'm curious of what additional parameters this animal requires to thrive and what I might possibly be missing?

Many thanks for anyones effort in educating me in this problem!

Tank: 75gal/8gal sump
Skimmer, plenty of circulation
Live Sand, Live Rock (in tank) / Live Sandbed in Sump
1 x Deep Antic light (20w), 1 x Marine Power light (20w), 1 x 200 watt MH w/ Fans
10 hours/day flourscent lights, 2 hours/day all lights (12 noon to one)
Specific Gravity: 1.025
Temp: 77-80 F
Temp Swing: 0.25 F/hour (Between 77 and 80 F)
Phospate: 0.25 mg/L
PH: 8.5
dKH: 6.18 / 110 mg/L
NH4/NH3: Less then 0.1 mg/L
NO3: Less then 5 mg/L
NO2: Less then 0.1 mg/L
Calcium: 450 mg/L
Iron + Cleated Iron: Undetectable
Copper: Undetectable
RO/DI Water Source
Instant Ocean Salt
Seachem brand additives (complete reef, raise alk, raise calium, prime (new water), iodine)

[hackman238]

To assist everyone, I've posted some pictures to give you an idea of what I mean.

Please excuse the size of the photos. They are 845kb, 1001kb and 1808kb repsectively if you have a modem.









Thank you all again!
--Hackman238

[scubadude]

Hey Hack
The frogspawn is a bit different than the zoos, however the first thing that comes to mind with this whole incident is that the same pathogen that may have caused the zoos demise could be affecting the frogspawn. My first reaction would be to carefully examine what has been done different to the frogspawns environment and to approach it that way first. I cant remember if you said you where using a UV sterilizer? If you are not but have access to one it might not be a bad approach to take. Are you actually losing tissue on the torch coral? Or has it just been retracted, how long has it been retracted....what about at night say an hour or two after lights out do the tentacles come out and does it open up? Have you changed your lighting, or any chemistry of the tank recently...like a big water change where you possibly didnt have the temp or PH, or SG exactly matched to the tank?

[James]

From the looks of the green and red algae, i would say your tank has not been set up very long. Frog Spawn won't thrive in a new set up. Check your phosphate levels again, and on a regular basis, especially if your mixing your own salt. Frog Spawn are very sensitive when it come to phosphates, lighting, and water flow. Try moving it to a low flow area of the tank for a while, it may just need time to adjust to your water chemistry. Another thing you may try is turn of the your circulation pumps and try feeding it, food should stimulate it to extract. Why only an 8 gal sump??? post a picture of it, I would to see it. Why are you adding Iodine?, Iodine is already in most salt mixes and should only be added if you have alot of soft corals. Too much Iodine will bring on an algae bloom. Be very carefull with additives, read up on them as much as possible before adding them, a safe bet is not to add any additives except in very rare occations. Your tank looks to be too new to be adding anything to the water chemistry.

[hackman238]

Scubaman: I do not have a UV steralizer or Ozone steralizer. Would this be a wise investment? What model or brand would you reccomend for a reef? Also, when I do water changes I always let the temperature stabalize to room temp, then add a power head I modified to inject large amounts of air bubbles into the water and put in a heater to adjust the temperature to within + or - 1 degree F of the tanks current temp. Often the saltwater is mixed days ahead of time, but not always. I add prime to it in the reccomended dose to ensure no CL or anything else commonly harmful is in the water. Water source is a RO/DI unit designed for tanks. I never top off with freshwater, or at all to that matter. My water doesnt evaporate quickly enough that the sump cannot compensate for the differnce. Should I top off over the week period? Would not doing so cause a drastic chemical problem in the tanks chemistry?

Thank you for your efforts!

James: You are correct that the tank is fairly new. Its about 4 months old now. The green and reg alga do not get out of control and require minimal effort on my end to maintain. Coraline alge on the otherhand is growing very fast, almost at an annoying rate. I have one small hard white coral (hammer coral maybe? Not sure) that is growing at a very high rate. ~1mm / week. My sump is labled as 5 gallon, but its measured capacity is 8 gallons. I;ve provided a picture of it. For the additives I add 1/16 the daily reccomended amount for the zoo colony. Do you reccomend I discontinue adding iodine because the zoo colony will most likely not tax the existing salt mix iodine content? I frequently have to adjust the calcium content to maintain proper numbers. Could this be the source of my issue?

Thanks for your advice and time!



Here is a pic of my intank PH meter...it reveals totaly differnt P results then my hagen test kit and ph dip strips...not really sure why. Could this hint an issue?

[hackman238]

Scubadude: To answer the second half of your questions, the torch coral is not loosing tissue or ejecting material. When the lights are all off, the coral closes further. When the blue antic and power marine are on it opens to about 2 cm, and when all lights are on (including MH) the coral retracts to about 1.5cm. It has been about 8 days since it began to act unusual. The coral acted normally and opened fully (about 6cm) when we first introduced it for about 12 days. There has not been any significant changes except I pulled my percula out of the tank to put in another temporarily...he was attacking the wrasses.

Thanks again!
--HM238

[James]

you say "The green and red alga do not get out of control and require minimal effort on my end to maintain."

tell us more on how you are doing this.?

you say "Coraline alge on the otherhand is growing very fast, almost at an annoying rate."

Yet there is no coraline alge in any of the photos you have posted.? There is alot of red alge, this is not coraline alge and is a common sight of high phosphates, or due to the Iodine you are adding.

your tank is too young and empty to be adding any kind of additives (iodine, calcium or anything else). Stick with your partial water changes and you'll do fine. Let us know what kind of salt mix your using, and how often and how much water change your doing.

Your sump will work ok, bigger is always better, more water volume. I would remove all media, Bio balls, rocks, and anything else you have in there, these things only trap food and fish waist debris and will raise your nitrate and phosphate levels. If you can, try to get a filter sock that will hang in your sump, these will catch debris and are very easy to clean and maintain. If a filter sock will not work with your sump, you can continue to use that blue filter media, but be sure to change it out on a regular basis.

As for topping off your tank, DO USE FRESH RO/DI WATER. this is a common mistake people make, never top off with salt mixed water, or you'll be adding to your salinity, water evaporates, salt does not. An easy way to monitor this is to adjust your sality to 34-35 with the water in your sump at the desired level, then mark the water line with a perminate marker on the outside of your sump and check it on a daily basis. you will still need to monitor your salinity weekly tho, because skimming and salt creep will alter your readings.

i think i see a piece of live rock in your sump, keep in mind that with out any light source it will begin to die off and raise your nitrates.

Do lots of reading, any books you can find on keeping a reef tank, ask lots of questions, especially here in Reefland. Lots of these guys here on Reefland have been keeping reef tanks for years and have seen, heard, and done it all. Take what the local LFS tells you with a grain of salt. (remember they are in the business of selling things.)

Good luck

[scubadude]

Originally Posted by hackman238

1 x Deep Antic light (20w), 1 x Marine Power light (20w), 1 x 200 watt MH w/ Fans
10 hours/day flourscent lights, 2 hours/day all lights (12 noon to one)

Ok here is your lighting and schedule correct? You sure its 200w? I have seen 250 and 175w but not 200....course you could be right things change alot in this hobby....anyway shouldnt matter too much. My concern is if your lighting is stronger than the lighting the frogspawn was acclimated too then you could be having retraction from that. Have you been doing any adjustments with your timing on your MH? You have it down as 2 hrs but was it always 2 hrs? or is it maybe 2.5 now? Photoperiod and lighting acclimation can be a very finicky area and has to be handled very slowly sometimes.

[hackman238]

James:
You are correct, I was careles when I made my last post. The coraline alge is not a problem yet, but the red alge is growing very fast. It isnt really out of control, and only requires me to wipe down the sides every week or so.

I have removed all the extra substrates from my sump, and reduced my use of all additives.

I've begun to top off my tank using a fresh water drip system, so as to avoid temp or wild salinity changes.

I've moved that single peice of live rock from my sump, I had it there temporarliy.

Since then, the frogspawn looks better. Thank you for your advice!

Scubadude:
You are correct, the MH wattage wasnt 200. I guessed that value, its acctually 250 watt. My MH is on for 2 hours everyday, give or take 5 minutes because my timer is finicky.

Thank you for your advice!

--HM238