[mrayburn]

I'm pretty new to the hooby with no major losses but I noticed to day that 8 of 12 of my purple mushrooms are just dissolving away can anybody help water quality is great except my alk. is alittle high it's about 21 whick is way down form 29 it was about a month ago.

[Ninong]

Hi mrayburn,




Mushrooms are sensitive to high alkalinity, especially sudden upswings in alkalinity. In fact, mushrooms are sort of like the canary in the coal mine when it comes to alk problems.

P.S. -- Both 21 dKH and 29 dKH are very high. Once you get above about 16 dKH, you're asking for trouble. It's much better to stay in a range between 10-12 dKH, although 14 dKH is not a problem unless it depresses your calcium level. BTW, what is your calcium level right now? What is your pH?

[mrayburn]

I can' t seem to get my alk. any lower no body knows why it's so high i have only been using ro water for the last month and a half before that I was using tap water all my other reading are great my cal. is 420 ph is 8.5 and al the bad stuff is zero

[Ninong]

It's quite possible that you have a bad batch of salt mix. That has been known to happen in the past, especially with one particular brand of salt that is quite popular. A few years back, that particular brand of salt mix was tested at 95 dKH, causing several reef tanks to crash. We have no idea how many customers were affected besides the half dozen or so who posted to that particular thread on another board. Their salt samples were tested by Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley in a very high-tech lab, so the results were correct.

For expert advice on dealing with alk problems, I refer you to the many excellent articles by Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley here.

[mrayburn]

thanks for the help just curious , what brand of salt ? because I use instant ocean

[Ninong]

Yes, it was Instant Ocean.

[Ninong]

The original Reef Central thread is extremely long. Here is a quick summary that I posted over here a few months ago:

A hobbyist in Vancouver, BC, purchased a bad bucket of Instant Ocean salt from J&L (gigantic Canadian LFS).

He did a 25% water change and everything in the tank started looking bad right away. He probably shouldn't have done the water change because the new saltwater mixed up cloudy, but he used it anyway without testing it.

His vendor (J&L) tested his salt mix for him after he complained and they reported that it tested "off the chart" for alk using two different brands of test kits. They gave him a new bucket of Instant Ocean salt. It turned out fine. In fact, after he performed a 90% water change on his tank, all the inhabitants showed immediate improvement.

The guy in Vancouver mailed a sample of his bad Instant Ocean salt to Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley for testing. Following is what Randy posted:

I tested pH with my just calibrated pH meter. Alkalinity was measured with a Salifert test that I had recently confirmed was approximately correct using alkalinity titrations with a pH meter and commercial standard acid solutions.

I mixed up the salt that Thomas sent in a clear glass jar that had been rinsed with RO/DI water. The water was added to the jar and the conductivity was measured to be about 1 uS/cm. I added the salt and stirred it for a few minutes using the conductivity probe. I kept adding salt until I reached 53 mS/cm (35 ppt). This took about 3-5 minutes. At the end of that time, the solution was fairly clear, with a few solid salt crystals on the bottom.

Interestingly, the water then began to cloud up. It got worse and worse. Eventually if was very cloudy (not quite skim milk, but on its way to that).

I did the exact same thing with a batch of IO that I had bought about 3 weeks ago at a local store. It mixed up clear, and stayed clear.

I measured the alkalinity in my tank water and found 3.3 meq/L (9.2 dKH).

I measured the alkalinity in the fresh IO that I bought and found 3.2 meq/L (9 dKH).

I measured the alkalinity in the salt sent by Thomas (using the cloudy solution without any filtration) and I found a whopping 34 meq/L (95 dKH). Interestingly, the cloudiness went away during the alkalinity titration (as one would expect for a salt like calcium or magnesium carbonate).

I monitored the pH of the solution as it clouded. I do not want to put too much emphasis on exact pH numbers because the precipitating CaCO3 may well have gotton onto the probe tip. Nevertheless, the pH was dropping, from about 8 when mixed to 7.77 to 7.53 to 7.37.

The solution made from IO that I bought did not drop in pH, or cloud up.

I made up an entirely new test solution with the Thomas material, using the jar that I had used for my Instant Ocean. Again, it started clear at about pH 8. I could take the pH probe back and forth between the clear second batch of Thomas material and the older clouded Thomas material, and the pH difference was more than 0.5 units. The second Thomas sample clouded up after about 10 minutes. I've not measured the pH again because I broke the glass tip stirring with the pH probe.

So, my conclusion based on these various observations is that:

1. The material is clearly not similar to IO that I bought myself.
2. The material is clearly unsuitable for use in an aquarium.
3. It is most likely that the material has too much in the way of bicarbonate salts in it (maybe carbonate too).
4. When mixed and allowed to sit for a few minutes, calcium and magnesium carbonate likely precipitate from solution, lowering the pH.

If I had opened a container of IO and got these results, I would be very angry. I would complain to customer service, and point out that a replacement bucket isn't going to make everything better (though it is probably all you will get). I would also point out that they'd better get their act together, or the reputation of IO will be rapidly diminishing as these results are already being discussed on the 40,000 member reefcentral board. (Actually, if it were me, I'd write an article on it, but until more folks find the problem, or it happens to me, I likely won't).

We never did figure out what was wrong with the bad buckets of Instant Ocean salt. Three or four other customers reported similar problems with alk readings that were "off the chart." They were from different parts of two countries, U.S. and Canada.

Aquarium Systems was very defensive and refused to discuss the problem. They replaced the bad product but they required that the customers mail them samples of the bad mix first. It was apparently "human error" of some sort on the part of the manufacturer but they never did explain exactly what had gone wrong. The only thing we know for sure is that somehow or other, some buckets of Instant Ocean salt mix were testing out at 95 dKH alkalinity!

Here is the original Reef Central thread from 2003.

[mrayburn]

What kind a of salt do you recomend my local fish store only carries instant ocean and reef crystal which is made by the same company

[bongobrian]

Yeah that's pretty crazy Ninong. I'm sure the same thing issue is also occurring with Reef Crystals as well. Perhaps I'll switch to a different brand all together.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by mrayburn

What kind a of salt do you recomend my local fish store only carries instant ocean and reef crystal which is made by the same company

I prefer to not recommend salt mix brands. I have noticed that some of the members on Reef Central whose tanks I really admire have recently started using one of the newer salt mixes.

I have personal experience with only one salt mix and I prefer to stay out of the recommendations end of it. I had no problems with the salt mix I used but I prefer to let people figure out for themselves which salt mix they want to try.



P.S. -- I do have very strong negative opinions about three or four salt mix brands but I have no experience with them. I just don't like the way they're made and what they include. I'm sort of neutral on Reef Crystals and Instant Ocean.