[Old Man Of The Sea]

OK, its been a while, but I wanted to make a selection to what I might or can get and not just leave it up to everyone else.

I located what I can with the free time which was available to me for I need now to move to the next step and make a fish selection for which SPS corals will be last here being that I will not look at add any to the tanks until pass the 5th month of age for the tanks. Now the list below, only snails and hermits will be added to the tanks in the beginning months and the other selections wont be added until a much later date while the tank ages, they will be added slowly. If im missing anything, please do make it a suggestion for me to look into and any comments to the selection you see here, im all ears (eyes)

Fighting Conch(Strombus spp.)
Chitons (When they become available)
Tiger Tail Sea Cucumber (Holothuria sp.)
Edible Sea Cucumber (Holothuria edulis)
Papillate Sea Cucumber/Light-Spotted Sea Cucumber (Holothuria hilla)
Alabaster Worm Cucumber (Opheodesoma sp.)
Turbo Snail Mexican (Turbo fluctuosa)
Turbo Snail (Turbo sp.)
Astraea Turbo Snail ((Astraea tecta)
Red Scarlet hermit crabs (Paguristes cadenati)
Blue-Legged Hermit Crabs (Clibanarius tricolor)
Peppermint Shrimps (Lysmata wurdemanni)
Scarlet Skunk Cleaner Shrimp (Lysmata amboinensis)
Blood Red Fire Shrimp (Lysmata debelius)
Pistol Shrimp (Alpheus sp.)
Indo-Pacific White-Striped Cleaner Shrimp (Lysmata amboinensis)
Blue tuxedo urchin (Mespillia globulus)
Globe Urchin (Mespilia globulus)
Emerald Crab (Mithrax sculptus)
Sand Sifting Starfish (Astropecten polycanthus)
Purple Burgundy Sea Star (Tamaria sp.)
Red Sea Star (Fromia milleporella)
Assorted Marble Sea Star (Fromia sp.)
Tiger-striped Fancy Serpent Sea Star (Ophiolepsis superba)
Fancy Banded Serpent Star (Ophiocoma sp.)
Blue Linckia Sea Star (Linckia laevigata)
MERRY CHRISTMAS
Buddy

[Ninong]

Buddy,

You're not getting any action here so I guess I'll go ahead and add my two cents. I suspect that one of the problems is that you failed to say what size tank you're talking about. It's hard to comment on the appropriateness of someone's proposed livestock selections without knowing the size of the tank.

For the sake of getting a discussion started, I will assume that we're talking about your 240-gal reef tank.

Originally Posted by Old Man Of The Sea

OK, its been a while, but I wanted to make a selection to what I might or can get and not just leave it up to everyone else.

I located what I can with the free time which was available to me for I need now to move to the next step and make a fish selection for which SPS corals will be last here being that I will not look at add any to the tanks until pass the 5th month of age for the tanks. Now the list below, only snails and hermits will be added to the tanks in the beginning months and the other selections wont be added until a much later date while the tank ages, they will be added slowly. If im missing anything, please do make it a suggestion for me to look into and any comments to the selection you see here, im all ears (eyes)

Fighting Conch(Strombus spp.)

I'm a big fan of Strombus alatus provided the tank is large enough (at least 180 gallons) and has lots of nice, open sand bed surface.

Tiger Tail Sea Cucumber (Holothuria sp.)

See my comments on S. alatus. Provided your tank has a large enough sand bed surface, one or two of these would be great. Start out with just one.

Turbo Snail Mexican (Turbo fluctuosa)

I wouldn't go overboard on these snails (Turbo fluctuosus) but they won't harm anything, except for the fact that they are large and clumsy and may knock things over.

I prefer Trochus snails as the best all-around grazers. You could also include some Ceriths and maybe a few Nerites, too. Assuming you have a nice sand bed, which seems obvious from your selection of sand cukes and a fighting conch, you should add some Nassarius vibex. These are carion eaters and they bury themselves in the top 1cm of the sand bed.

Red Scarlet hermit crabs (Paguristes cadenati)

I had a dozen of these guys in my 120-gal tank only because I kinda liked the looks of them. Next time I think I will go with maybe just three or four at the most. My recommendation on hermit crabs is the fewer the better and I wouldn't consider any of the other species.

Peppermint Shrimps (Lysmata wurdemanni)

These would not be my first choice because there are numerous reports on the boards of these guys occasionally causing problems harassing corals. If you get any at all, get two. All shimp in the genus Lysmata are believed to be cleaners and all are believed to be simultaneous hermaphrodites.

Scarlet Skunk Cleaner Shrimp (Lysmata amboinensis)

Lysmata amboinensis would be my first choice in this genus. Be sure to get two of them. If your tank is large enough, it could support a couple of pairs by I wouldn't get more than one pair if you intend getting other shrimp in this genus.

Blood Red Fire Shrimp (Lysmata debelius)

These are attractive and you could keep a pair in the same tank with a pair of L. amboinensis, assuming the tank is large enough. Each shrimp needs at least one square foot of surface area but I think figuring in at least two square feet of surface per shrimp is a better idea. All cleaner shrimp are territorial but their territories are not all that large. If you want to avoid potential trouble, don't add any Stenopus hispidus shrimp into a tank with Lysmata shrimp.

Pistol Shrimp (Alpheus sp.)

If you get one of these guys, be sure to get the appropriate companion shrimp goby to go with it. Most vendors sell them as matched pairs.

Blue tuxedo urchin (Mespillia globulus)

A possibility if you're into urchins.

Emerald Crab (Mithrax sculptus)

I would not include any emerald crabs (Mithraculus sculptus) at all. These guys are omnivores but they change from mostly herbivorous as juveniles to mostly carnivorous as mature adults. In their natural habitat, they are known to feed on coral polyps.

Sand Sifting Starfish (Astropecten polycanthus)

These should only be considered in tanks that are at least 350 gallons, probably at least 500 gallons. I wouldn't consider even one of these for a 240-gal tank. And that's not the only species that they are selling as the "sand sifting starfish." And since they don't actually "sift" sand like some gobies, they should be called sand shifting sea stars.

Purple Burgundy Sea Star (Tamaria sp.)

I would probably stay away from Tamaria stria. These are frequently sold online as "Purple Linckia" sea stars. There are some purple Linckia sea stars but usually when people order one, they end up receiving a purple T. stria instead. The T. stria stars have orange feet, the purple Linckias have clear feet.

If you are determined to get one similar to this, I would go with the blue Linckia (Linckia laevigata). Be aware that these guys have a reputation as absolutely terrible shippers. Very few survive the stress of collection and transport. The damage they sustain due to osmotic shock during handling may not show up for a couple of weeks.

Dr. Ron Shimek and Dr. Rob Toonen have both written extensively on the suitability (or NOT) of the various sea stars for reef tanks. Here is an article from May 2002 by Dr. Rob Toonen that you may find interesting.

Red Sea Star (Fromia milleporella)

These are cute but I'm not sure if their chances of survival are all that good. There is the problem of damage done during collection and shipping and the added problem that we really have no clue what these guys eat. I had two of these that I liked a lot but they didn't last long at all. I was extremely careful in the slow-drip acclimation process but they both died within two or three weeks.

Assorted Marble Sea Star (Fromia sp.)

Fromia monilis, the orange marble sea star, is certainly one that I would consider as reef-aquarium safe but there is the problem of whether it would survive long-term in captivity.

Tiger-striped Fancy Serpent Sea Star (Ophiolepsis superba)
Fancy Banded Serpent Star (Ophiocoma sp.)
Blue Linckia Sea Star (Linckia laevigata)

Some ophiuroids (serpent stars) are relatively reef-aquarium safe but some are not.

Linckia laevigata is reef-aquarium safe but it can get quite large (12-14") and it is very difficult to find one that has not been damaged in handling before you buy it. As far as sea stars go, it's an acceptable choice but your chances are still not very good.

Merry Christmas!

[Old Man Of The Sea]

You're not getting any action here so I guess I'll go ahead and add my two cents

Its the story of my life at my age

I suspect that one of the problems is that you failed to say what size tank you're talking about

I have to say that most who know of me and know about the waiting I done with these tanks that they are a 180 and 240 gal reef tanks, and it be the 180 that I will do first for which the 240 needs much (thousands) more work to make it look like it should had.

I'm a big fan of Strombus alatus provided the tank is large enough (at least 180 gallons) and has lots of nice, open sand bed surface.

I will also have me a number of clams as well as my other species I not ever made any changes on is the Redface Moray (2) and once the 240 is made ready, I will get a pair of dwarf golden morays.

I wouldn't go overboard on these snails (Turbo fluctuosus) but they won't harm anything, except for the fact that they are large and clumsy and may knock things over

On any larger snail species I might select from, I will only have a small number of each.

I prefer Trochus snails as the best all-around grazers. You could also include some Ceriths and maybe a few Nerites, too. Assuming you have a nice sand bed, which seems obvious from your selection of sand cukes and a fighting conch, you should add some Nassarius vibex. These are carion eaters and they bury themselves in the top 1cm of the sand bed.

I will look into your suggestions on the other snails and yes, im to add to the sand bed to have 4" or better. Also, on the Peppermint Shrimps (Lysmata wurdemanni), I will not look to add a pair, only if needed.

Lysmata amboinensis would be my first choice in this genus. Be sure to get two of them. If your tank is large enough, it could support a couple of pairs by I wouldn't get more than one pair if you intend getting other shrimp in this genus.

I never before look to add more then one type of shrimp for like I been saying, im looking to do something far different then I ever did before and the SPS caorals is one of those. There are something I not know about and that be that one type of shrimp from another species can offer my tank a far great service. Or is it that im only fishing here? LOL

These are attractive and you could keep a pair in the same tank with a pair of L. amboinensis, assuming the tank is large enough. Each shrimp needs at least one square foot of surface area but I think figuring in at least two square feet of surface per shrimp is a better idea.

OK, you answered my question before I ask you it, LOL

Pistol Shrimp (Alpheus sp.)

If you get one of these guys, be sure to get the appropriate companion shrimp goby to go with it. Most vendors sell them as matched pairs.

I not remember exactly, but I believe that I have some shrimp goby fish named on my fish list selection>

On the urchins, I will not be getting those until the tank is more then half stock or more, I want it aged perfectly as I can possibly have it. Also, the emerald crabs are only on the list to when and if I may have some need for their help, If I not need their help, I will leave them in the LFS.

These should only be considered in tanks that are at least 350 gallons, probably at least 500 gallons. I wouldn't consider even one of these for a 240-gal tank. And that's not the only species that they are selling as the "sand sifting starfish." And since they don't actually "sift" sand like some gobies, they should be called sand shifting sea stars.

I was counting the assistance of this species, I been looking for all species of life for the tank, those who clean at the surface and down in the DSB. Im hoping that the most I will have to do is only clean the glass of the tanks.

I would probably stay away from Tamaria stria

[Old Man Of The Sea]

You're not getting any action here so I guess I'll go ahead and add my two cents

Its the story of my life at my age

I suspect that one of the problems is that you failed to say what size tank you're talking about

I have to say that most who know of me and know about the waiting I done with these tanks that they are a 180 and 240 gal reef tanks, and it be the 180 that I will do first for which the 240 needs much (thousands) more work to make it look like it should had.

I'm a big fan of Strombus alatus provided the tank is large enough (at least 180 gallons) and has lots of nice, open sand bed surface.

I will also have me a number of clams as well as my other species I not ever made any changes on is the Redface Moray (2) and once the 240 is made ready, I will get a pair of dwarf golden morays.

I wouldn't go overboard on these snails (Turbo fluctuosus) but they won't harm anything, except for the fact that they are large and clumsy and may knock things over

On any larger snail species I might select from, I will only have a small number of each.

I prefer Trochus snails as the best all-around grazers. You could also include some Ceriths and maybe a few Nerites, too. Assuming you have a nice sand bed, which seems obvious from your selection of sand cukes and a fighting conch, you should add some Nassarius vibex. These are carion eaters and they bury themselves in the top 1cm of the sand bed.

I will look into your suggestions on the other snails and yes, im to add to the sand bed to have 4" or better. Also, on the Peppermint Shrimps (Lysmata wurdemanni), I will not look to add a pair, only if needed.

Lysmata amboinensis would be my first choice in this genus. Be sure to get two of them. If your tank is large enough, it could support a couple of pairs by I wouldn't get more than one pair if you intend getting other shrimp in this genus.

I never before look to add more then one type of shrimp for like I been saying, im looking to do something far different then I ever did before and the SPS caorals is one of those. There are something I not know about and that be that one type of shrimp from another species can offer my tank a far great service. Or is it that im only fishing here? LOL

These are attractive and you could keep a pair in the same tank with a pair of L. amboinensis, assuming the tank is large enough. Each shrimp needs at least one square foot of surface area but I think figuring in at least two square feet of surface per shrimp is a better idea.

OK, you answered my question before I ask you it, LOL

Pistol Shrimp (Alpheus sp.)

If you get one of these guys, be sure to get the appropriate companion shrimp goby to go with it. Most vendors sell them as matched pairs.

I not remember exactly, but I believe that I have some shrimp goby fish named on my fish list selection>

On the urchins, I will not be getting those until the tank is more then half stock or more, I want it aged perfectly as I can possibly have it. Also, the emerald crabs are only on the list to when and if I may have some need for their help, If I not need their help, I will leave them in the LFS.

These should only be considered in tanks that are at least 350 gallons, probably at least 500 gallons. I wouldn't consider even one of these for a 240-gal tank. And that's not the only species that they are selling as the "sand sifting starfish." And since they don't actually "sift" sand like some gobies, they should be called sand shifting sea stars.

I was counting the assistance of this species, I been looking for all species of life for the tank, those who clean at the surface and down in the DSB. Im hoping that the most I will have to do is only clean the glass of the tanks.

I would probably stay away from Tamaria stria

There are plenty of other starfish on my list, even thou that I wanted this one the most.

These are cute but I'm not sure if their chances of survival are all that good. There is the problem of damage done during collection and shipping and the added problem that we really have no clue what these guys eat

That is why the idea to post a list to my picks and then from there I could either remove it and select a replacement

Fromia monilis, the orange marble sea star, is certainly one that I would consider as reef-aquarium safe but there is the problem of whether it would survive long-term in captivity.

Isn't it pretty much the same with most creatures that are collected from the oceans? Also, if I see that it is reaching to its demise, I will look back and see if there were any problems within the tanks water quality and all else and if I see that nothing could have been better done, I would thing look for some other type of replacement. I will not buy the very same species time and time again with zero results.

Your last line you really hit me below the belt, ouch!! Im open to anything you can suggest, im looking for the best cleaning crew that I can collect for each tank. Im at my daughters house with my two five year old twins for I will have them for the next 10-12 days or so.

I had a lot of problems typing this and to paste while not on my own computer, you have to excuse me if many errors, it topok to long to complete and I my grandkids as well with me.

Merry Christmas

Buddy

[Old Man Of The Sea]

Ninong, my cleaning crew is now as:

Fighting Conch(Strombus spp.)
Chitons (When they become available)
Tiger Tail Sea Cucumber (Holothuria sp.)
Edible Sea Cucumber (Holothuria edulis)
Papillate Sea Cucumber/Light-Spotted Sea Cucumber (Holothuria hilla)
Alabaster Worm Cucumber (Opheodesoma sp.)
Turbo Snail (Turbo sp.)
Astraea Turbo Snail ((Astraea tecta)
Pistol Shrimp (Alpheus sp.)
Blue tuxedo urchin (Mespillia globulus)
Globe Urchin (Mespilia globulus)

And that is possible cleaning crew for I will not have all those cucumbers>

Merry Christmas
Buddy

[Ninong]

I would start out with no more than one cucumber (Holothurian sp.) and one fighting conch (Strombus alatus). And I would definitely include some Trochus snails.

[Old Man Of The Sea]

Ninong, I figure then to add one cucumber around the 6th month of age the system and being the cucumber fans out to one foot max, I can look to add another, the same species or different months later. From your lack in quotations, it tells me your pleased within my decision. And thus far, im still work on a fish selection and there be some chopping on that as well, as any possible addidtions.

Merry Christmas
Buddy

[Ninong]

It's really up to you what you feel like having in your tank. I was just trying to point out things that I thought might be a mistake. And as far as sand cukes and fighting conchs are concerned, it is difficult to get them to thrive long-term unless you have a very large amount of available sand surface per animal. Many people make the mistake of adding too many of these and then wonder why they perish 18 months later. It does take them a long time to die.

[Old Man Of The Sea]

Being their larger species, im planning on a small number, only how small a number I have no idea on and what I want is not exactly what I listed for the most part of it, but rather what is far better to have over the other inverts and this goes to the fish selection as well. For what I want is the marine species which will help the system and not just abuse it like. I not mind a fish or two that will do nothing for the system other then to help it look beautiful. Im a disabled person with a limit to what I can do physically and im looking to see if I can make this as easy in the maintenance of the tank on my own part.

Yes, I will clean the skimmer and such and water changes and anything else I will need to do here to have as beautiful a system I can. So you not think im such a cripple, on my 240 water gal eel system, I make a weekly water change of 30+ gals.

So in any case to what you readied that I wanted most, those can and could be changed over to something other then what I selected. You only need to make that suggestion known and I will give it much thought if need be. I want any and all the best possible cleaning crew.

The colors im not concern about as most folks seem to be in this for my true colors will come within the corals>

Merry Christmas
Buddy