Beginners Questions

[JohnPro]

Hi I am about to transform my fresh water tank into a reef tank. I have some questions and would really appreciate any answers.

How often do I change the water? Does the size of the tank make a difference in when to change it? I have a 32 by 15 inch tank.

Would I need to replace whole or half of the tank water?

Aside from fish food what substitute can I use to feed my fish?

Are the flakes ok or is it worth paying extra for the granules?

How about coral? What substitute could I use to feed them because the liquid food is quite pricey?

Can I use my freshwater gravel or should I use sand?

I enjoy catching the fish myself, how can I transport the fish from the beach to my tank safely?

Would a 20 liter container keep them safe for about half a day? Or is it necessary to have a pump?

Could I close the lid during transportation because the water spills a lot?


About The Fish,

What’s the life expectancy of most marine fish?

Are some fish stronger than others? What type of fish is the strongest to survive in a tank?

About The Corals,

What type of coral lives the longest in an aquarium?

If possible how do I remove coral from its base under the ocean? Can I break it off or must I take the whole rock it is stuck to?

Does some coral species eat or kill the fish?

[art_of_war]

John,

Wow...you have quite a few questions. It's nice to see a new addition to the hobby but that's a lot of answer. Out of most of us, you have it the best. Living out near the reefs is a PLUS! It surprises me that you would waste any time earlier on with freshwater at all with the entire ocean at your door...a tropical one at that.

There are tons and tons of websites that you could easily google to give you more advice and direction; there's lots of books too. I would consult those as well. BUT, the only thing I want to really say is:

The bad habbits that you acquired in the freshwater hobby? You need to shake those off now!

In the mean time...

Saltwater Aquarium 101 - Getting Started.


Getting Started With A Salt Water Aquarium

Freshwater Vs Saltwater

I found this one to be interesting...

Freshwater vs. Saltwater

This site has some interesting points...but not completely true:

Freshwater Aquarium vs. Saltwater Aquarium

Tons more...just google it.

[Samper]

How often do I change the water? Does the size of the tank make a difference in when to change it? I have a 32 by 15 inch tank.

There is no set rule of thumb when it comes to water changes. In my systems I try to change about 25% monthly. The biggest thing is that you make sure the water change parameters match the systems. Temp, pH, Ca, Alk, Mg should all be in line before replacing display water.

Would I need to replace whole or half of the tank water?

Above should answer that.

Aside from fish food what substitute can I use to feed my fish?

Lots of us make our own. You can buy seafood from the supermarket and mix it with some selcon, oyster eggs, phytoplankton, Nori, Broccoli, carrots, brine shrimp, cyclop eeze etc....blend it all together and freeze it into little cubes. Sometimes you can find tiny pill dispensers at Wal Mart that make a great little cube tray.

Are the flakes ok or is it worth paying extra for the granules?

Both are ok but it depends on the fish you need to feed.

How about coral? What substitute could I use to feed them because the liquid food is quite pricey?

The corals that I keep that need to eat are fed with a turkey baster. I spot feed them oyster eggs, cyclop eeze and the food that I make from the list above.



Can I use my freshwater gravel or should I use sand?

Your best ebt is to use an oolitic CACO3 sand. You can mix this with a play sand if you want but the more oolitic sand you can use the better. There is always the option of going bare bottom too.

I enjoy catching the fish myself, how can I transport the fish from the beach to my tank safely?

I wouldn't recommend doing this...I prefer to buy tank raised fish whenever possible. Doing this you will still need to quarantine them but you run less risk of parasites and disease

Would a 20 liter container keep them safe for about half a day? Or is it necessary to have a pump?

You can transport fish in that size container. Most of the time when they are shipped to me they are in small plastic bags containing about 1/2 liter.

Could I close the lid during transportation because the water spills a lot?

Yes


About The Fish,

What’s the life expectancy of most marine fish?

This varies with species like anything else. Some of mine are 6 years old now and still going strong.

Are some fish stronger than others? What type of fish is the strongest to survive in a tank?

That's a very broad question.....but yes some are stronger and more aggressive than others. Compatibility is a big issue for most of us and a well planned list will save you lots of headaches. Tank raised aquacultured fish have fewer parasites and are adapted to captive conditions.

About The Corals,

What type of coral lives the longest in an aquarium?

I can't answer that but under the right conditions you will have to will them to someone.

If possible how do I remove coral from its base under the ocean? Can I break it off or must I take the whole rock it is stuck to?

I wouldn't recommend doing this. Some places it is illegal and then again you get animals not really conditioned to captivity. I never get wild caught corals in. To help reduce stresses on the natural reefs aquacultured frags are best.

Does some coral species eat or kill the fish?

Yes

[Ninong]

Hi JohnPro,

Hi I am about to transform my fresh water tank into a reef tank.

Converting from Freshwater to Marine Aquarium Keeping by Anthony Calfo.

How often do I change the water?

There is no set answer to this question. You could change 10% of the water every other week or every other month, or you could change 20% of the water every month or every other month. Water changes of more than 20% are seldom performed unless there is an emergency situation that calls for drastic corrective action immediately.

Does the size of the tank make a difference in when to change it? I have a 32 by 15 inch tank.

Yes, the size of the tank does matter, especially if it is a very small tank. Very small tanks (>100 liters) require more frequent water changes. Your tank is larger than 100 liters. What are the full dimensions of your tank: 32" x 15" x ?

Would I need to replace whole or half of the tank water?

This is not the same as with a freshwater tank. You would never change half the water at once unless you had a disaster on your hands. A regular water change is usually between 10-20%.

Aside from fish food what substitute can I use to feed my fish?

"Fish food" is what you should feed your fish. You can purchase it or you can make your own. You should probably purchase it in the beginning. Your fish deserve a wide variety of quality food. Some fish are carnivorous and others are herbivorous, and some will eat just about anything. You will need to know the dietary requirements of each of your fish. In general, frozen foods are better than flake or pellet, but flake and pellet foods can be included. If you have herbivores, you will need to feed seaweed-based foods daily.

Are the flakes ok or is it worth paying extra for the granules?

Flake foods are fine and can be included as part of a varied diet. However, you will want to include a wide variety of foods, not just flake foods.

How about coral? What substitute could I use to feed them because the liquid food is quite pricey?

You're nowhere near needing to know the answer to this question yet. I suggest you do a lot of reading before you purchase any corals. Most corals are photosynthetic (they contain zooxanthellae) and get most of their energy needs met by their symbiotic zooxanthellae. However, even photosynthetic corals do feed on zooplankton, bacterioplankton, phytoplankton, dissolved organic matter, particulates, etc. What they eat depends on the exact species of coral. Corals without zooxanthellae get all of their nutrition from feeding and you shouldn't attempt any of these until after you have some experience.

Can I use my freshwater gravel or should I use sand?

You should not use your freshwater gravel. I would recommend aragonite sand. You can purchase this from an aquarium store or you can collect it yourself if it's legal to do so where you live. For example, someone living in the Philippines might collect their own sand instead of buying it.

I enjoy catching the fish myself, how can I transport the fish from the beach to my tank safely?

Would a 20 liter container keep them safe for about half a day? Or is it necessary to have a pump?

You can safely transport the fish from the beach to your tank with any container large enough to hold the fish plus sufficient water. I would be careful about what fish I put together in the same container. Whether you need a battery powered airstone in the water depends on how long it's going to take you to get the fish home after you collect them. A 20-liter container should be large enough for most fish but I suggest you try to get home as quickly as possible. You will need to acclimate the fish to your tankwater after you get home.

Are you collecting your own seawater or do you intend to purchase artificial salt mix to make saltwater?

Could I close the lid during transportation because the water spills a lot?

Yes, you may need to close the lid during transport.

About The Fish,

What’s the life expectancy of most marine fish?

The life expectancy ranges from less than two years for some small gobies to more than 60 years for some large groupers. The average life expectancy for the most commonly kept marine aquarium fishes ranges from 8-24 years.

Are some fish stronger than others? What type of fish is the strongest to survive in a tank?

I assume you mean which fish are hardiest and easiest to keep. Damsels are practically indestructible but I don't particularly like them myself. Clownfish are relatively hardy. This is a very broad topic.

About The Corals,

What type of coral lives the longest in an aquarium?

Corals do not experience senescence. In other words, they don't age. Stony corals just continue to grow, building up the reef structure, forever unless they are killed off by natural disasters, made-made disasters, global climate change, etc. Corals will live in an aquarium until you kill them accidentally or until they outgrow the aquarium.

If possible how do I remove coral from its base under the ocean? Can I break it off or must I take the whole rock it is stuck to?

First of all, you need to know what is legally allowed where you live. Corals can be propagated in an aquarium by very small fragments. In other words, you don't have to remove a large coral from the ocean, just a small two or three inch piece will suffice. And by the way, I'm coming up with a very different location for you based on your IP address. You're not posting from Australia. ;)

Does some coral species eat or kill the fish?

There are only a very, very few corals that actually eat fish. This is extremely rare. Some large mushrooms can do this but, in general, corals do not eat or kill fish. Anemones, on the other hand, can eat fish.

[JohnPro]

Thank you so much, they were incredibly helpful.

What a shame about catching them myself, in one of the beaches the clown fish are about 4 feet from the surface (low tide). Anyway The coral is pretty cheap so I should just purchase them.

And art of war the Fresh vs salt is interesting and bad news for my pocket .

Ninong hehe you must be the admin. I live in Australia but I am currently based in the Philippines, the laws are not very strict in the Philippines and there is an abundance in coral. I asked the local police station and it seemed like they didn't know but they said its ok

Saltwater tanks have a lot more work involved I can see but I think its worth it they are just so much more beautiful.

[Ninong]

Ninong hehe you must be the admin. I live in Australia but I am currently based in the Philippines...

Yes, it's amazing what you can do with an IP address.

You can back it out to the exact latitude and longitude and then you can enter that information into Google Earth and zoom right in.

We have another board member who lives in the Philippines, charlesr1958, but he's located nearly 500 miles away from you on Cebu. He has a website.

[Samper]

Ninong....do any of the corals age? I sort of always thought that some did....like plate corals.

[Ninong]

Ninong....do any of the corals age? I sort of always thought that some did....like plate corals.

It's sort of a matter of semantics, or, as one former U.S. President once said, it all depends on what your definition of is is.

When a plate coral reproduces sexually, the offspring are new individuals resulting from the combination of genetic material from egg and sperm. However, when it reproduces asexually by budding, it has cloned itself and the resulting offspring are identical. In that sense, it continues indefinitely. However, I understand your point. A plate coral is a polyp that is not colonial and not connected to other polyps, such as your typical reef-building Acropora and Montipora, etc. Even with these species, each individual polyp has a limited lifespan but the colony continues to grow and lay down limestone that lasts virtually forever.

Even when you see claims that anemones do not age, it's more a statement of the fact that they don't have an aging process, not really a claim that an individual anemone will live forever. I believe the oldest anemones found to date are somewhere around 100-200 years old. The oldest clams found to date are in the range of 400-600 years old.

[Ninong]

It's sort of a matter of semantics, or, as one former U.S. President once said, it all depends on what your definition of is is.

I didn't really explain what I was getting at very well. What I should have said was that different people have different approaches to the concept of senescence.

For example, zhenya purchased a single rose-colored Entacmaea quadricolor anemone about five years ago. Within a few months, it divided itself in half and he then had two individuals that were genetically identical in every way. So what is the lifespan of zhenya's anemone? Is it until the death of the first individual? Or does it continue as long as there are new clones? And if it's only until the death of the first individual, how do you know which half of the first pair should be considered the first individual and which should be the second? That first individual has produced several dozen clones in the space of less than five years.

Taking an example from botany, what is the oldest living tree? Is it the Bristlecone Pine (Pinus longaeva) or is it the Aspen (Populus tremuloides)? Individual bristlecone pines can live 5,000 years. One was accidentally cut down and it had 4,873 annual growth rings. Fallen bristlecone pines have been found with more than 5,000 growth rings. On the other hand, maybe it's the aspen? There is an aspen in Utah named Pando. It covers more than 2,000 acres. Aspen, like bamboo, can reproduce by shoots from spreading roots. This particular aspen grove has been determined to be a genetically identical male tree. It is estimated to weigh more than 6,600 tons. It would take thousands of years for it to spread over 2,000 acres. Therefore it's really the same individual tree because what we see as individual trees are really just shoots rising up from one gigantic root system that is thousands of years old. This is quite similar to what we have with colonial stony corals. Like the Energizer bunny, they keep on going.

Here's another example that has been in the news a lot in recent years: The 'mutant' Caulerpa taxifolia that has caused so much trouble in the Mediterranean, and elsewhere, in recent years is a genetically identical male. Every sample that has been examined has been identical and every sample has been male. It originated at the Stuttgart Aquarium in Germany and they gave frags to other public aquariums, including the Monaco Aquarium. It 'escaped' from the Monaco Aquarium because the Monaco Aquarium is connected to the Mediterranean Sea. The first colony was observed directly in front of the Monaco Aquarium. It has since spread all over the Mediterranean and even to Australia and just off the coast of San Diego. It was probably transported accidentally by ships. This particular strain/mutation of Caulerpa taxifolia is much more tolerant of cool water than normal tropical C. taxifolia and it is much more hardy. In fact, the Germans were so thrilled with how hardy it was and how tolerant of water temperature extremes, that they just couldn't help but pass on cuttings to their colleagues at other public aquariums.

[Samper]

That's a really tough call when you put it like that. We discussed Pando in Botany as well as a the Armillaria ostoyae found in the Malheur National Forest. These would be considered one living organism. If the entire grove or fungus were to perish we would have an idea of the lifespan. When an anemone or any other coral reproduces by making a clone of itself 2 seperate but indentical animals result........I understand what you mean and how this becomes gray area very quickly.

When I think of Dolly the cloned sheep and the sheep the somatic cell came from I think about two identical animals that will inevitably perish at different times so you have a lifespan and an aging process occurs with each. Then again you could keep cloning them and continue the line as well.....I can't believe I actually sit around and think about stuff like this on a Saturday night.

[Ninong]

When I think of Dolly the cloned sheep and the sheep the somatic cell came from I think about two identical animals that will inevitably perish at different times so you have a lifespan and an aging process occurs with each.

The difference here is that mammals do experience senescence, even cloned mammals. Anemones do not experience senescence. Neither does the bristlecone pine.

[JohnPro]

Hi guys just need some help in settting up my tank. I have cleaned it and dried it out so its like new i read from somewhere to remove all traces of the freshwater and green stuff.

I bought a new filter an external one I would like to know if its a good idea to use my undergravel filter? I still have my gravel wich was also cleaned and dried out in the sun.

I have connected a single pipe from the undergravel filter to my pump and was wondering if this is a good idea? the pump might strain itself and burn out quick.

Also could sand damage the pump?

YOu can see the pics.

http://johnpro992.angelfire.com/music/fish1.jpg
http://johnpro992.angelfire.com/music/fish2.jpg
http://johnpro992.angelfire.com/music/fish3.jpg
http://johnpro992.angelfire.com/music/fish4.jpg

[JohnPro]

Sorry No Edit button,


To view images copy paste URL do not click them Angel fire has a roadblock thing

[scubadude]

Hi John
The undergravel filter and gravel you used for your freshwater tank should NOT be used for a saltwater tank

[rjs5134]

Wow, I enjoyed that "conversation" Ninong and Samper. I haven't thought about some of those subjects since Genetics class in college.

Just a different take on one of his questions. I interpreted his question of how much water to change, 1/2 or the whole tank, to mean how much of the existing water should be changed and not just had salt added to it. I guess I gave credit for general water change routines.

If I'm correct in my interpretation than I think we all agree, the tank should be completely broken down, cleaned thoroughly, and new, salt water should be added.

Good luck

[Ninong]

Just a different take on one of his questions. I interpreted his question of how much water to change, 1/2 or the whole tank, to mean how much of the existing water should be changed and not just had salt added to it. I guess I gave credit for general water change routines.

His immediately previous question was about how often he needed to change the water. I'm pretty sure he was asking about how much of the water to change every time he performed a regular water change. It's quite common to do a 50% water change ever other week in planted freshwater tanks. I doubt seriously that he was asking if it's OK to use any of the existing freshwater from a freshwater tank. I can't imagine anyone even considering doing that but I could be wrong.

[Ninong]

Hi guys just need some help in settting up my tank. I have cleaned it and dried it out so its like new i read from somewhere to remove all traces of the freshwater and green stuff.

You should clean your tank thoroughly. I would suggest using about a liter of vinegar in freshwater to the top of the tank and allowing that to sit for a couple of hours before wiping down the inside glass thoroughly. You might also want to use a second bath that includes perhaps a pint of bleach but following that, you would need to do an extremely thorough rinsing with plain freshwater.

I bought a new filter an external one I would like to know if its a good idea to use my undergravel filter? I still have my gravel wich was also cleaned and dried out in the sun.

External filters, such as the one you just bought, are not preferred for marine aquariums. A simple protein skimmer is a better choice.

An undergravel filter could be used but it is definitely not the best way to go and very, very few people actually use that method anymore for marine tanks.

I would suggest throwing away the gravel from your freshwater setup and starting over with aragonite sand.

The lighting you presently have is inadequate and will have to be upgraded.

You will probably want to remove the glass tank covers.

[JohnPro]

Hi guys, thanks for the help.

About my second question I was thinking that I get the water from the beach or pier and how much to remove and replace after that.

Is it ok to get water straight from the ocean or even the beach?



I dried my tank out in the sun (very hot sun) and i scrubbed it all. At the moment its only got filters so it will probably dry out some more.

Ok i wont use the Undergravel filters and thanks (aragonite sand) I was wondering what kind it needed to be.

I really prefer to get everything natural because the trip to the only salt water shop here is all the way in the city (not much of a city) but still takes a while to get there .

[Ninong]

Is it ok to get water straight from the ocean or even the beach?

Yes, of course, it's OK to get the water straight from the ocean. I would avoid the beach area. You want to get it from an area that does not have any pollution.

If you are going to use it right away, then you don't have to take any particular precautions unless you're the super cautious type. If you're storing it for use later, then it should be placed in a covered container and allowed to settle out for a week before using it. The plankton will die off and settle to the bottom of the container. Siphon off the water from the top and leave anything in the bottom of the container undisturbed.

I really prefer to get everything natural because the trip to the only salt water shop here is all the way in the city (not much of a city) but still takes a while to get there .

La Trinidad or Baguio? It takes a while because you're up in the mountains. What are all those terraced fields around there, rice? Or what?

[Samper]

wow