[SouthBayPhoto]

Oh ya, the glass tops are already going bye-bye from a post Poseidon put up. No worries there. They are already off the tank.

Thanks for the link on the valves.

However, does anyone know how big the "siphon break" hole should be in each of my return lines? How far below the water line do you normally put the hole? 1/2"? 1/4"?

I was going to drill it tonight, but would rather get some advice first before just "guessing" on how big of a hole and where to put it.

[charlie]

1/8" or smaller Mat. I drilled mine about a 1/4" below the water line. HTH

[Samper]

Here is another thought on the siphon breaks. Drill the holes so that you can see them and clean them if you need to. Also it's best to start at a downward angle so that water doesn't spray out of it.

[charlie]

Originally Posted by Samper

Here is another thought on the siphon breaks. Drill the holes so that you can see them and clean them if you need to. Also it's best to start at a downward angle so that water doesn't spray out of it.

That is exactly what I did!!!!!

[SouthBayPhoto]

thanks a ton guys! I was going to just put the holes right in the front of the tubes anyway, so that'll work just fine. I'll just drill down at an angle.

I'm about to go fill up the tank now anyway to test the sump/tank/pump/plumbing system and see how it goes. Once it seems to balance, that'll provide me with a "for sure" waterline and I'll just go about a 1/4" under that.

Again, I appreciate the help!

Oh, and if the test goes successfully, I might be going out and getting the Krylon Fusion paint (flat black) tomorrow to paint the entire system and then put it all back together. After that....well....I'll be ready to start building some rock structures (that is...when I find the rock. LOL)

[SouthBayPhoto]

Alrighty....now I'm a little worried. The tank & sump are currently filled with water (pics below), but I'm curious about a couple of things. I thought the water level would be around the bottom of the teeth of the middle overflow I have. It's not...it's up near the very top of the teeth (see pics). Is this normal? I did have to drill a bigger vent hole (started out with the initially prescribed 1/16" as Durso stated, but to stop the constant up and down siphoning, I had to go up to a 1/8" hole) and at least the flow is constant. No up and downs...but it's still high.

You'll see photos of the edge of the tank and how high the water level is in the tank. I'm wondering if this is normal or not. I'm probably about 1/2" to maybe 3/4" from the top plastic lip on the tank (where the top glass would normally sit on top of). As you can see by the sump photo, the water seems to be doing fine and I'm actually getting no bubbles in the return lines what so ever. I'm very happy about that. Oh and just as a recap, I'm running a MAG12, internally in the sump.

Now, I put my fingers near the return outlets in the tank and it feels like it's not really pushing much water out. I figured my 90* elbows would slow down flow, but THAT much?! I'm just wondering if it's actually pushing out more flow than I'm feeling with my fingers. I can put my fingers in front of the powerhead in my 46 and that water is gushing and making ripples in the tank. Heck, even if the fish get in the way, it shoots them across the tank. LOL However, I don't think the push from the 90 returns are even remotely close to that.

Yet, if I get a bigger pump, it worries me because of how high the waterline already is. I have the ball valve completely open. In my tests earlier (prior to opening up the vent hole a bit more to stop siphoning), I partially closed the ball valve and it did drop the water level a bit, but that was before I even tried to put my fingers in front of the return lines.

Am I doing something wrong? :slap:

Here are the pics to show you what I mean about the water level. I hope you can tell what I'm trying to convey.

Water level across the tank:


Closer shot of water level at back of tank near plastic lip:


Water level at the overflow box (in middle of two panes of glass) near the top of the teeth:


Level of water in overflow with durso standpipe:


Finally, the water level in the sump itself:


Again, any help would be appreciated.

[charlie]

Hey Mat, I think you will be OK, your flow looks be be constant at least. You could always "T" the return to return the excess back to the sump if you are worried about it.
Do your siphon breaks work?

[Poseidon]

Unplug the MAG and do a power failure test.... The water from the tank that comes down should not overflow the sump, as long as you are safe with that, then I think you are fine.

[SouthBayPhoto]

Yup...did the power failure test last night and it drained a little (mainly the overflow until it reached below the Durso standpipe opening) and then stopped. Mainly the check valve stopped everything. But even if that would have drained, I would have had more than enough room in the sump.

However, since I expected (and I KNEW I shouldn't have done this, but I did! :slap: ) the water level to be at the bottom of the teeth, I put my siphon breaks 1/4" below that. DOHHH! So, now they are about 1" or more below the actual water line.

So, when I take out the pipes to let them dry to paint them (Krylon Fusion), I'll just drill two more holes (I used a 7/64" drill bit) that are 1/4" below the ACTUAL water line. It shouldn't matter much that the other hole is there because it's way below the water line. However, I did drill them at a downward angle as suggested.

And so far this morning, everything has been on par. No leaks, no rising water issues. Everything is staying constant, even the draining is a constant flow. So, as long as the water line isn't a real issue, then it looks like I'm good.

[SouthBayPhoto]

Oh ya...how strong should that flow be in the tank from the MAG-12? Doesn't seem very strong, but I do have slight swirls forming on the surface of the water. So maybe it's flowing more than I thought it was?

The returns are about 3 3/4" below the surface (the middle of the 90* elbow) and the water line is almost exactly 1/2" from the plastic "lip" of the tank.

[charlie]

There is more flow than you know, but those mag pump are not pressure rated, so the head loss is probably a little more. If you have some swirls on top of the water, you should be good to go. Drop some fish food in and see what happens.

[charlie]

You gotta have an update for us????

[SouthBayPhoto]

Allllrighty, here we go!

Today I went out and tried to find some "underwater epoxy" so I could "glue" some fiberglass window screen onto some egg crate I have. That will go in the sump to keep the critters from getting into the return side of things and clogging the MAG12. However, all of the epoxies I saw said "not for prolonged underwater use" or it said "not for aquariums or potable water". Sooooo, I finally just grabbed some "aquarium safe" 100% silicone by DAP and used that to adhear the screen to the egg crate. It's curing now. It'll be dropped into the sump on Monday night.

I took apart the top part of the returns (after marking the tubes with the REAL water line) and drilled another 7/64" hole 1/4" below the water line. I then turned off the pump and watched the water drain a bit and then stop because of the siphon breaks. It still drains water out of the tank (but not via the return lines) via the overflow because it has to drain down to the bottom of the teeth.

I then modified the total water in the sump after "shut off". Then started the pump up again, made sure everything stablized and then marked the sump so I know where my "max water level" is going to be at. So, when I do my refill, I know to go to that line and that's it. So, there "shouldn't" be any overflow now if the pump gets cut off.

However, since I wanted a little more room in the sump "just in case", I'm going to have to extend my drain line a little bit so it's not so close to the water surface of the sump. So, I'm going to throw a coupling onto the end (instead of cutting more PVC) and that'll give me the extra 1" to 1 1/4" that I want under the water surface.

The couple of places I went for the Krylon paint today didn't have it, so I'm off to another place right now. If they have it, I'm going to shut the system down, pull the lines tonight or tomorrow morning and paint tomorrow. They should be dried and ready to go by Monday night at the latest.

Oh, and Charlie, I'll have to drop in some fish food and see what goes. I do have stuff that has settled at the bottom of the tank. I'm guessing it's crap that was in the overflow and possibly the pump (I got everything used) since it hasn't been run in a while. I'll just have to clean that stuff out when I drain all the freshwater that I'm running in there for the test of the system. However, it does show me that I'll probably have to throw a power head on each side closer to the bottom of the tank (in addition to the return lines up top). I know I won't be able to go too close to the bottom because I'll be running a DSB, but I'll have to have somethin' down there.

[charlie]

I think you'll find that you can add a couple of powerheads, maybe maxi-jets, but you won't have to get them down to low. The MJ1200 is an excellent unit and kicks up some nice flow. Alot of people have been trying the Korallias too, but I haven't tried them, so no opinion there. Do a little bit of searching around here for powerheads, and it'll be enuf to get you thru the football games tomorrow.

[SouthBayPhoto]

Ya, I have seen more than a few people post about the Korallia 3 & 4's. I'll have to check into them. Just more money to add to the addiction! (lookin' around the apt to see what else I can sell off now. )

[charlie]

Whatever you do, don't sell your toilet, or tomorrows coffee and breakfast. At least you know you can start the day off right.

[SouthBayPhoto]

Ok, I'm back. That was pointless. (note to self: Kragen closes at 8 pm and not 9pm on Saturday nights. :slap: )

Soooooo, looks like I'm going to try and get the paint tomorrow.

No worries on the toilet and the breakfast, but since I don't drink coffee, that might be a source of income.

I was thinkin' about the computer system, but then I'd go into MAJOR withdrawals if I couldn't get on the net, so that idea was nixed in a heartbeat.

So, hopefully tomorrow afternoon/night I might have some painted PVC shots. Hehehe. I'm just trying to figure out now if I want to paint the entire PVC system or just the top return tubes that go into the tank. (that's the only part I want to really blend in anyway). Hmmm...decisions, decisions.

[charlie]

I guess you could only paint what you are gonna see, the rest is hidden, right?

Sell the coffee maker!!!

[scubadude]

This is turning out to be a good thread Mat
Love the new clean pics...w/out anything in the way it shows an internal view of your plumbing which you will be thankful for later on when you have a bunch of growth and take a pic that you took the new pics!

Funny too! The heck w/it I say sell the toilet! or use it as your top off unit

[charlie]

Originally Posted by scubadude

This is turning out to be a good thread Mat
Love the new clean pics...w/out anything in the way it shows an internal view of your plumbing which you will be thankful for later on when you have a bunch of growth and take a pic that you took the new pics!

Funny too! The heck w/it I say sell the toilet! or use it as your top off unit

Top off unit?????????????????? How about a surge device!!!