[onebadbug]

Hi all..

I used to be into reefing big about a decade or so ago and am getting back into it as of late. I will be making my own again seeing as I own a glass shop it has it's perks soo... Hiaya!

The only reason I got out last time..?
Loooong story so I'll make it real short...

500+ gallon reef tank
15+ year collection of animals & equipment
120 year old oak tree
Tornado out of season
STATE FARM SUCKS!

Nuff said?


I Cut the glass for the tank today and will hopefully have it edged up before friday and possibly assembled by sometime next week if/when time permits in the shop.

I've been away from this for so long I have forgotten so many things since. so... if any of you don't mind I would like anyones expertise on the designing

What I drew below is rough at best for other than the dimensions and not well planned or thought fully out as of yet. Not sure if I am going to utilize my old filtration systm similar to below or go a newer route. Not sure what to do there yet. So Iask...
What would you change?
What would you scrap?
what would you do with it?

Please tear it apart, I need you're suggestions.

[thagreek]

I think you have it under control. You probably know more then me. Just wanted to say good luck with it.

[onebadbug]

Originally Posted by thagreek

I think you have it under control. You probably know more then me. Just wanted to say good luck with it.

to a degree... Need refreshing on ALOT!

He11... Already changed it from last night and will probably chage it 10 times by the time I start the cabinet


a little rfining on fitment of actual equipment sizes... It's slowly coming back... Stll see a few problems yet though...

[ret25yo]

more flow in main tank...you may want to think about 2 drains and more returns or look into adding a close loop system..

[Ratpack]

Put as much flow in the tank as you can to keep things suspended in the water column to give the skimmer a chance to take them out. Also you can get rid of the drip plate and media which I am assuming is bio-balls or similar. They will just cause issues down the road unless you are only doing fish. A lot of folks now, myself included, only use flow and a good skimmer for filtration outside the live rock. Of course carbon and stuff like that are still used. The UV is also a highly debated piece of equipment. I think most say it is more of a waste of money than benefit. A lot really depends on what you plan to have in there. If going with a reef system, then a really good skimmer, lots of flow and good lighting is all you need from the equipment standpoint. Most everything else just helps ease the daily maintenance.

[SouthBayPhoto]

I just wanted to say howdy and "ya, what he said!" (Tim/Ratpack, that is)

Lookin' forward to seeing some pics when it's done.

[onebadbug]

yes I remember welll FLOW, FLOW, FLOW!

And if I'm remembering correctly from the last setup I always liked using a ceramic media via a wet/dry config wether it was in or outside the loop and, i may have this srong but, it made it somewhat to keep the nitrifivation and PH level a bit more less of a pain to battle against... Yes? no? ...??

And as far as the skmmer goes I salvaged the old double headed skimmer that I also made from the old setup that I plan to re-use and the flow rate witin that is astonishing to say the least. In the last tank it was being pushed by a pair of 1500gph heads, 1 to run each barrels seperate centri and took me quite awhile to get dialed in to not constatly suck the sump dry3 times a day and in turn loose prime. thats when I went to a 12v UPS style shutoff on it and doubles as the entire system check to boot against catastrophic water failures. And in the end worked fantasticly!

And as for the UV Serilzer goes... The only reason I am going to give it a try is last summer there was a pond supply place that went out of buisness and they had they're door closing sale I only paid for 25 bucks new and unopened... originally retailed cost over 400 bucks! So I might as well use it.

I have quite a pile of leftover stuff from the old one so I dont have to make too much as far as equipment goes....
Still have:
Three good MH pendants and balasts
1 pair of MH compacts
72" quad VHO setup (yeah odd size) ballasts still good
most all of the hand wired timming bay and lighting controls stuffs...
one very good self priming inline tsurumi pump, flow was never a problem ever and this one will be half the size... I'm worried I won't be able to reduce it enough
all the old coral substratings, cleaned, dried and stored in buckets
at least 300-400lbs of old dead? ...rocks
all the gravles and sands all cleaned, dried & still sealed in buckets etc...
and boxes full of odds and ends...

and now I'm going to go edge the glass... Should have some pics up of progress by tomorrow maybe...

[zhenya]

Hi onebadbug,

And if I'm remembering correctly from the last setup I always liked using a ceramic media via a wet/dry config wether it was in or outside the loop and, i may have this srong but, it made it somewhat to keep the nitrifivation and PH level a bit more less of a pain to battle against... Yes? no? ...??

Many things have changed from a decade ago, which I'm sure you have noticed already. If at all possible, I would forgo the wet/dry route. I personally hate this method of filtration for reef type aquarium for abvoius reasons. The most important one being that it needs constant maintanance. If you skeep it then you'll have more nitrates to deal with than you ever wanted. I've been down that road in 98 when I set up my first tank.
Anyway, I would concentrate more on the biological filtration that will be inside your tank already, like good quality live rock and maybe a deep sand bed if you are like me and like diversity of life insode the tank.

The UV lamp won;t really hurt anything unless discount the fact that it will kill anything that passes through it. Plankton and gamets that may be utilized by corals, and fish as food will be destroyed.

As far as skimmer goes, go for a model that is as powerful as you can possibly afford to fit in your schematics, which look good for the most part.

On a side note, please post any pictures that you can take of your eqipment so we can visualize what we are talking about.

And good luck with everything!

[onebadbug]

Originally Posted by zhenya

Hi onebadbug,

Many things have changed from a decade ago,

The UV lamp won;t really hurt anything unless discount the fact that it will kill anything that passes through it. Plankton and gamets that may be utilized by corals, and fish as food will be destroyed.

...As far as skimmer goes...

On a side note, please post any pictures that you can take of your eqipment so we can visualize what we are talking about.

And good luck with everything!

From one Gene to another... HI GENE!

Yeah as I have been reading around here i do see that indeed ALOT has changed over the course of the last decade+. So far most of the things I havent heard of in the past I am grasping in theory but not quite fully in actual functions or integrations fully... I'm sure by the time I get to that point that I will have become a bit more up to speed with the trade in present day technologies available in comparison to 85-95-ish era.

So far the 2 hardest thing I am trying to decipher persoanlally is how to
1) configure the sump! ...I really don't want to do boxes and prefer to run right out from the bottom but I haven't seen any setup here that has it or can find anyone that has attemted it!

2) After I ran the glass last night for the tank being at a 30" height I see after I was done edging them I am now thinking this may be too big... kinda makes me fell a little unsuer now that I have staned up the big pieces and has me seriously wondering about it. I think I may have a serious deflection issue and bit more stress on the large lites and it has me a bit concerned for failure so I may be re-cutting all of it over today and going with a long shallow tank maybe either 84 or 96l x 21h x 18d and then make it an open sight top with no trim.

Yeah... I know what the UV can/will take away, but in the same token from when I did this the last time. I used to hatch my own food via a seperate system, mostly just hatched brine but toward the tail of end of my run I had just started doing (red?) plankton quite well to boot. And not sure if this has any bearing when going from fresh to a salt enviroment but, I also have a quite sizeable pond in the yard that I put one of the other sterilizers into it last year and it has such a difference for many of the undesiranle bacterias within it and has made it almost the optimum in the quality of the water from there within. And again knowig what it does and will do I may be more inclined to use it as a passive easily removable part of the system and only use it say... when cycling for treatment a outside quarantine or conditioning.

And found out last night when I pulled out my old skimmer taht I will now be buying a bew one as one of the acrylic tubes got cracked and both collection cups strainers got chewed into ny mice so probably going to cost me less just to buy a new one as opposed spending 3 days hunting for all the original materials to repair it... But I'll stil put up a pic of it later though.

and yeas as soon as I actually decide the final size, even though I already cut and edged last night what I drew above, the pics will start going up regualarly....

[scubadude]

Originally Posted by onebadbug

The only reason I got out last time..?
Loooong story so I'll make it real short...

500+ gallon reef tank
15+ year collection of animals & equipment
120 year old oak tree
Tornado out of season
STATE FARM SUCKS!

Nuff said?

Hi Gene

Definately nuff said! I know this feeling all too well. Its like a woman having a miscarriage in the 9th. month! Try having thousands of gallons in a greenhouse in Fl. and stock to the hilt w/corals then having a hurricane rip it all apart

The important thing is that you are back in the game baby! and that you have learned from your mistakes

Originally Posted by onebadbug

I Cut the glass for the tank today and will hopefully have it edged up before friday and possibly assembled by sometime next week if/when time permits in the shop

Lets talk about your tank for a bit....Ok since your a glass man, Im curious if you are gonna use starfire glass? You have been out of it for a bit so I hope you know that starfire is a great asset to the aquarium industry now, it has much better clarity to it.

What are the actual dimensions of the tank...from the looks of your drawings you have changed your mind from 36" tall to 30" tall....There obviously is alot of changes that come with this ...as your lighting depth penetration changes, and the way you disperse the light as well as flow/circulation, and water volume. Are you gonna do center braces or are you gonna use a perimeter bracing? Corner braces? You state that you are a glass man but im guessing you mainly do commercial glass that is not related to aquariums?

The only other thing different I would do is I would keep the UV sterilizer iniline like you have it but maybe I would put it after the Skimmer...and I would make the UV sterilizer on a manual switch that way you dont have to utilize the UV unless you have a problem.

This setup sounds very exciting! I love the sounds of your dedication and it truely does inspire me, as I have gone through similar downfalls that you have. Do a search on this forum for hurricane greenhouse and you will see

Rise above Gene!

[Ratpack]

In your last post, you mentioned the dimensions being possibly 96x21x18 with 18 being front to back. I would change that dimension if I had the opportunity you have in being able to cut and do my own glass. I would go at least 24" front to back or maybe even 30-36 inches. Again this is just me, but the look of a deep tank has so much potential when aquascaping it is unreal. Just take a look at this tank and you will see what I mean.

Oregonreef.com

It appears like he has a true slice of the ocean. I always thought it would be nice to have a square like this and have the overflow in the center as well as all the returns and so forth. Then you could disquise them as a rock island and have viewing from all sides.

Just throwing this out since you have the resources to do what a lot of us would have to pay major $$$$ to do. Also, like I am sure we have all said once we set up our reef tank, "Why did I not go bigger?"

[onebadbug]

Originally Posted by scubadude

Hi Gene

Definately nuff said! I know this feeling all too well. Its like a woman having a miscarriage in the 9th. month! Try having thousands of gallons in a greenhouse in Fl. and stock to the hilt w/corals then having a hurricane rip it all apart

The important thing is that you are back in the game baby! and that you have learned from your mistakes

$5 says I might be buying something from a coral farm in Kansas sometime in the near future?

Originally Posted by scubadude

Lets talk about your tank for a bit....Ok since your a glass man, Im curious if you are gonna use starfire glass? You have been out of it for a bit so I hope you know that starfire is a great asset to the aquarium industry now, it has much better clarity to it.

Yes I carry Starfire here... but am not going to use it...

Okay now you asking why....
Personally? Yeah.. it is slightly clearer than plain old float and yes it is prettier being all purply/bluey/pinky in color, which is also the same reason why blues/oranges/pinks are brighter in it, but when it comes down to actual compared transmission & clarity, in actuality it is nearly infitecimal against plain float in thickness' less than 1/2", I see it more of a panosh thing for some people maybe that are overly exuberant in their personal wants and wanting what every says something is a must have to keep with the jones'. But thats just my opinion too... And when you are pushing 12,000,000 candle power thru a tank will a 4-5% in clarity really make me 4-5% more happy?
...I doubt it.

Beyond that it just adds to end costs... even though it costs the same price as regular float sheets, at least from my supplier anyway. Also SF is actually a softer plate & scratches somewhat easier too. It cuts like butter when you pit it against a sheet of std float plate on the cut table.
There is another product, and the brand name eludes me right now, I call it water white You will see them use it alot in musems and such... which is nearly iron & lead less float glass almost along the clarity line of bavarian crystal that is infinitley clearer than anything out there but the cost is staggering in comparison and the less the iron & lead in the float it gives a negative percentage of flexibilty and useability to boot.

Originally Posted by scubadude

What are the actual dimensions of the tank...from the looks of your drawings you have changed your mind from 36" tall to 30" tall....There obviously is alot of changes that come with this ...as your lighting depth penetration changes, and the way you disperse the light as well as flow/circulation, and water volume. Are you gonna do center braces or are you gonna use a perimeter bracing? Corner braces? You state that you are a glass man but im guessing you mainly do commercial glass that is not related to aquariums?

The only other thing different I would do is I would keep the UV sterilizer iniline like you have it but maybe I would put it after the Skimmer...and I would make the UV sterilizer on a manual switch that way you dont have to utilize the UV unless you have a problem.

This setup sounds very exciting! I love the sounds of your dedication and it truely does inspire me, as I have gone through similar downfalls that you have. Do a search on this forum for hurricane greenhouse and you will see

The final dimension is... (drum roll please) 96"L x 26"H x 24"D ...and thats my final excutive decision on it,,,

The only reason for not going any deeper is I like to be able to maintain it without having to get on a ladder to do it (they won't let me play with ladders anymore these days) and also the sump that will be below the tank will be nearly a mirror in volume as the tank itself.

[onebadbug]

Originally Posted by Ratpack

In your last post, you mentioned the dimensions being possibly 96x21x18 with 18 being front to back. I would change that dimension if I had the opportunity you have in being able to cut and do my own glass. I would go at least 24" front to back or maybe even 30-36 inches. Again this is just me, but the look of a deep tank has so much potential when aquascaping it is unreal. Just take a look at this tank and you will see what I mean.

Yes after I ran it last night I realized it seemd a bit too tall in proportion to the length and have now decided to go to what I originally thought up but now is plan B, longer VS. deeper so the new size is now 94"L x 26"H x 24"D.. and thats my last size change. The only setback for me is my sheets are 60X130 so I will have to buy a new sheet of 1/2" for the bottom seeing as I wasted the other sheet now... opps! It should be here monday or tueday on the truck... and the other guys already went home so I can't recut it till monday and is just sitting on the table uncut now.


Or hmmm... I have a few of these laying around collecting dust... Maybe I should build a 9' tall 5' corner bow that I can scuba in??
....Just kidding

Originally Posted by Ratpack

....since you have the resources to do what a lot of us would have to pay major $$$$ to do. Also, like I am sure we have all said once we set up our reef tank, "Why did I not go bigger?"

The eventuality from the last one all simply became from the culmination of ten years across... Just like most all of us, It all started in a 30 gallon that someone gave me... then I bult a 75, then 150, then 250 (which was 60" deep and absolte pain in the ass to maintain! ..and as well in the past anyones I did deeper than 32" while being on a stand were also a but more difficult as well) then the whopper 500+ not including the outside filtration all told nearly 800+/- even though I loved it and ran like a dream to a point it kind of swallowed 1/2 my houses space ij it... So this time around I want it big enough to satisfy but not go overbaord and keep it realistic as well as self contained. So I have picked one wall in the house and no more!

Originally Posted by Ratpack

Oregonreef.com

YIKES WOW...
That is sweet but... No way i'm ever gonna get that nuts on it this time... Reminds me of what I had with exception to the contained neatness
But as far as building tanks goes... I have built larger ones for the right cu$tomer$ in the past.

[scubadude]

Okay now you asking why....
Personally? Yeah.. it is slightly clearer than plain old float and yes it is prettier being all purply/bluey/pinky in color, which is also the same reason why blues/oranges/pinks are brighter in it, but when it comes down to actual compared transmission & clarity, in actuality it is nearly infitecimal against plain float in thickness' less than 1/2"

Can I stir the pot a little bit?

Well correct me if Im wrong but your gonna use atleast 1/2" thick glass anyway right? So the thickness/clarity rule will apply to your tank! Now lets talk about clarity when compared float vs SF...Look at that last picture you posted....Look @ all the green you see in that glass with the wall being a white back drop....I would think that would be enought reasoning to go with SF there alone
I had my 220g custom made w 3 viewing panels made w/starfire and Im glad I did...I actually saved some scrap pieces of starfire glass and have these pictures that show the difference...BTW the glass is 1/2" thick.
Starfire is on the left and float glass on the right in all these pictures

Beyond that it just adds to end costs... even though it costs the same price as regular float sheets, at least from my supplier anyway.

well since it dont cost you any more money throw that thought out the window!!....We like working w/your money anyway

Also SF is actually a softer plate & scratches somewhat easier too. It cuts like butter when you pit it against a sheet of std float plate on the cut table.

Ok so far this is the only downfall I see for starfire

And when you are pushing 12,000,000 candle power thru a tank will a 4-5% in clarity really make me 4-5% more happy?
...I doubt it.

Maybe not...but other than you worried about the glass getting scratched a little more you dont have alot to lose...which I guess that could be a deciding factor?

There is another product, and the brand name eludes me right now, I call it water white

Is it Opti-White? I have been told that Opti-White will give your corals more brilliance...like putting more 03 lighting above them I also have been told that it can make things like a bit more distorted like when you take a picture of a bowfront it has that distorted look.

The only reason for not going any deeper is I like to be able to maintain it without having to get on a ladder to do it

Touche! Totally understand that one!

[onebadbug]

Originally Posted by scubadude

Can I stir the pot a little bit?

But of course! ...stir away!

Originally Posted by scubadude

Well correct me if Im wrong but your gonna use atleast 1/2" thick glass anyway right? So the thickness/clarity rule will apply to your tank!

nope using 3/8" the only placet hat is getting 1/2" is the floor... where all the weight is.

HA! you're going to freak here ... I've done tanks over 250G all done in 1/4"

Yes okay 90% of the community probaly just had an cornary embelism from that statement...
Just so you know where I am coming from here and not just spouting crazy statements like a 1/2 cocked twit, blubbering idiotic statments at will here so that

...Those without experience in glazing start & go out and do dumb things I am in no way shape or form endorsing to do anything without the proper experience and go and get themself hurt or worse... killed!

prior to owning my own shop here I have 25+ years in the contract glazing & fabricated glass trade, when I worked with Harmon Contract Glazing Chi. Div. & MTH Industries I have worked on everything from 80 story buldings to including setting the viewing panels for both the shedd aquariums Belugas tanks as well as the polar bear exhibit at lincoln park zoo and the Adler planetarium just to mention a few... And proir to that a fabrication shop called Glassfab (noe defunct in the fabrication end) and on the side have built at least 50 tanks privately across my span in the trade to boot ranging from 30 gallons to 15,000+ gallons, the only exception being for the last 10 years as I have concentrated on my 8 yrs young shops business pushing at the forefront and not a full time fish tank builder... But I am now getting back into reefing for the ususal personal reasons seeing as I posess the equipment to do so and remeber the hours of enjoyment that from when I pursued it before... and if in turn maybe in the future there becomas a call for it who knows... maybe I will open another avenue in the shop!

sooo... Back to reefing I go happily again!

Ok so... How did I make that large of a tank using 1/4" thin glass...
Easy.. It's called STRUCTURAL GLAZING and SIMPLE PROVEN ENGINEERING METHODS


Alot of people don't realize the actual structural propersties of a proper simple silicone joint when it is prepped, shot, cured and above all done NEATLY. And then with all the spaces in between such joints a smidge of engineering insight & ingenuity coupled with expertise while rolling alot of the things that I have learned as far as strength charachterics of glass and what you can and can't do then coupled to a bit of common sense as well as what I used to assemble on massive scale structure now being applied into a smaller & similar structure.. And will compensate for daunting engineering loads and logistics with ease without sacrifcing any safety issues.
...All the principles stay the same reguadless of actual size...

Originally Posted by scubadude

Now lets talk about clarity when compared float vs SF...Look at that last picture you posted....Look @ all the green you see in that glass with the wall being a white back drop....

Yes let's... make a tank... then put water in it... then hang a whte plastic sheet inside it, not behind it, and then focus a pair of 1000w 20k metal halides and a pair of 450w actinincs... and take a pic... You will end up with an almost negligble result.

But now if you put a few colred swatches witin it against the white witin those same tamks... then yes, blues, purples, reda, oranges, yelloas and pinks will have a bit more vibtance But I chalk it up to due to the "coloring" characteritiscs of SF not as much from the clarity debate...

And again... I not rying to bash it... tell anyone not to use and so on and so forth... Just merely how I see and using my opinion as my take. I still think it is more of a panosh thing...

**and on a side note here... I have also noticed, when not cut into smaller parts, but on full size sheets I have them both in the same row in my material area but opposed to eachother.. I have noticed that on some but not all that are truly the Starfire mfg. when looked thru at a distance some sheets seem to have a slight clouded, almost milky, appaeance only when looking thru the sheets in direct sunlight.. I have also had a few customers that I have done their very expenxive shower doors also complain about the same thing, on occasion...

Originally Posted by scubadude

Touche! Totally understand that one!

The deepest one I have ever done for my personal was a corner tank about 48" from the corner & 60" of viewing and I had to get on a 6ft ladder put on a snorkel and mask to get all the way to the bottom and dump 1/2 the water everytime I did it not to mention I only had obout 18" of spave to the cieling... and of all the tanks I have had it was also the first one that I litterally almost gave it away just to get rid of it.

Although... Last winter I did a tank inside a round staicase from 2 of those bent lites in the picture up there above... He asked me how he should clean it when it need it.. First off no I won't, don't, can't care to maintain it for you and second... Seriuosly? Umm... Truth? ...scuba dude! (no puns intended scuba)... And no I dont have a pic of the finished project... the guy is kinda of weird about security in his home as he is somewhat famous and quite insecure thinking that people, mysterious black helicopters and people with too much tinfoil in their cupporad might be stalking him...

And seeing as he pays, in cash... I wasn't going to upset him in asking me to not take pictures of his house for the second time and wind up not call me on the next one. as I did another one for him too about 7 or 8 years ago

[scubadude]

well all righty then

[onebadbug]

Originally Posted by scubadude

well all righty then

Yeah I know...
salters & reefers ...ain't we a special bunch of opinionated quirks.

Was just looking at you're 125 build... nice! Makes me homesick almost