Tropic Marin Pro Reef

[Nikki]

I am switching salts and my bucket of Pro Reef does not list the mixture ratio of salt to water like the IO did. I searched the web and these forums and did not find anything (probably user confustion though :-)). Can someone share with me the US cup to US gallon size to use for this salt?

[Ninong]

I have no experience with that particular brand, although it has a very good reputation, but the general rule of thumb is that you start out with 1/2 cup of salt mix per gallon of water and then measure your salinity and see what you have. A refractometer is the best way to measure the salinity.

You can't rely completely on a certain measurement (whether in cups or by weight) to always produce exactly the same salinity because of variables such as moisture content in the mix, etc.

What you can do is mark a spot inside your Rubbermaid (or whatever) mixing container and always fill it with R.O./D.I. water to that exact same spot. Let's say it's exactly 18 gallons of freshwater (which is what I always made up in my 20-gal containers). Then you add 9 cups of salt mix one at a time, stirring after each cup is added. I used a really large kitchen spoon (white polypropelene). You make sure that it is mixed thoroughly before you try to test for salinity. Let's say you want the salinity to be 35 ppt but you're getting a reading of only 33 ppt. So you add a cup of salt and mix it in thoroughly and then check the salinity again.

If by chance you get a reading on salinity that is too high, you simply add more R.O./D.I. water. If necessary, you remove a gallon or so of the saltwater so that you can add more freshwater. Once you have done this a couple of times you will know just about exactly how much salt mix to add for that amount of freshwater.

Technically speaking, 35 grams of mix dissolved in one liter of R.O./D.I. water should give you saltwater at 35 ppt but I would still use a refractometer to check it out because there are too many variables.

[Nikki]

Ninong, thanks for the detailed information :-) I will start with the 1/2 cup per gallon and see where that gets me. I did splurge for the refractometer and am very pleased with how much easier it is to measure the salinity, as well as the elevated level of trust in the measurement. Certainly a worthwhile investment.

[SouthBayPhoto]

This is probably going to sound idiotic, but I figured why not?

Is there any specific section of the tank you would draw the water from for your refractometer? Is the surface okay or should you go more towards the middle of the tank? Not near the skimmer pump? etc...

I just got my refractometer the other day and I was thinking about it while sucking the water into the pipette, so I figured I'd ask.

Nikki, I've also read good stuff about the Tropic Marin Pro Reef and was considering trying it out as well. Now I just need to find out who sells it around here. LOL

[Ninong]

Is there any specific section of the tank you would draw the water from for your refractometer? Is the surface okay or should you go more towards the middle of the tank?

Just avoid the very surface itself in case there are any oily films on the surface. I drew the sample water for all of my tests from about an inch below the surface. Also, I usually tested before, rather than after, feeding. And I usually tested in the morning rather than in the evening. The reason I tested in the morning before feeding was because I had a tendency to feed a lot of stuff (sometimes really weird stuff) that I made up myself and I didn't want the stuff I fed the tank to affect my nitrate measurements.

Obviously if you're testing for pH with a test kit, you'll want to test it at least twice a day, the same day -- early in the morning before the lights come on and late in the afternoon/evening just before (or just after) the main lights go off.

When you're just starting out, you will probably want to test a lot more often than you will several months later on. That's just the way it goes. And that's probably a good thing. I suggest you test every weekend (either Saturday or Sunday morning) and record all of your measurements. This will give you practice in testing technique and it will help you become aware of any potential problems. Eventually you will get to the point where you will probably test only once a month.

[SouthBayPhoto]

Cool...that's what I've been doing, so I'm right on track.

[Nikki]

Mat,

I will post here how I like the new mix after testing it. I just mixed up my first batch today and will let it age a bit. The reason I switched was because my previous salt had very low Ca and Mg. Interestingly enough though I ahve not used any of the new salt for water change yet and I have some calcium based algae that has started to grow. Things that make you go hmm....

I actually purchased mine on-lin. Even though it was $20 shipping it was still cheaper than the LFS.

[rjs5134]

I'm in the market for a new salt mix myself. I'm not sure if the salt mix is the problem, but at least I'll eliminate another question. Somehow my alkalinity drops quickly to 6.7dKh, the calcium remains around 370 and the magnesium actually increase to 1500+.

Ninong, I think I remember reading elsewhere that you said Tropic Marin Pro Reef was not "compatible" with IO. Am I correct, or is my memory more shot than I think it is? If this is true, does this mean I should not switch from IO to TMPR directly or is there a method that works?

Thanks

[Ninong]

I'm in the market for a new salt mix myself. I'm not sure if the salt mix is the problem, but at least I'll eliminate another question. Somehow my alkalinity drops quickly to 6.7dKh, the calcium remains around 370 and the magnesium actually increase to 1500+.

Ideally you want a salt mix that mixes up to somewhere between 400-450 ppm Ca, 8-12 dKH alk and ~1300 Mg. Unfortunately, it's difficult to find one that consistently delivers those numbers.

Ninong, I think I remember reading elsewhere that you said Tropic Marin Pro Reef was not "compatible" with IO. Am I correct, or is my memory more shot than I think it is?

Looks like your memory is more shot than you think it is.

What I said was that some folks have experienced problems switching from Instant Ocean to Crystal Seas. This has been discussed ad nauseam on another board and we still don't understand why that happened to some people. It's possible that there is something going on when switching between those two brands. I used Crystal Seas with no problems but I wasn't switching from Instant Ocean. Zhenya switched from Instant Ocean to Crystal Seas and experienced slight problems but nothing really severe. Some people reported major problems switching from I.O. to C.S., and some people reported no problems whatsoever switching from I.O. to C.S. Dr. Mac switched his entire aquaculture facility from I.O. to C.S. without any problems as far as I know. One of the reasons he switched to C.S. is because it's manufacturered right there in Maryland where he's located and he can get it locally wholesale at a very good price.

Anyway, we never could figure out exactly why some people had a problem switching from Instant Ocean to Crystal Seas but enough people did report problems that it would be prudent for anyone making such a switch to do so VERY slowly. I would recommend nothing more than a 5% water change every three weeks or so in the beginning to see how things are going.

Interestinly enough, it's ONLY when switching from that one particular brand to Crystal Seas that people have reported problems. Crystal Seas Bio-Assay Formula (which is what I used) is the salt mix of choice for the EPA down here in Baton Rouge when they do lab tests. The bio-assay formula does not contain a dechlorinator/dechloraminator like the regular Crystal Seas does.

Various possible explanations have been put forth by the guys who make Crystal Seas but all of their explanations have to do with what they think may be wrong with Instant Ocean.

[rjs5134]

Boy Ninong, those numbers would be like a dream come true... I knew I read a problem with 2 brands, I just thought I read it here. Maybe you referenced that thread elsewhere on Reefland and that's why I connected you to it. Seems after 30 everything starts to fall apart, abs disappear, ability to drink beer and still get up in the morning disappears and memory skills diminish, just to name a few.

Anyhow, thanks for the clarifications. I'll probably buy a bucket on the way home today to get this change over started.

[Ninong]

I have never seen anything about a problem switching from Instant Ocean to any other brand other than Crystal Seas. I have mentioned this on Reefland and Reef Central but it has always been Instant Ocean to Crystal Seas, not Tropic Marin.

[west]

here a bit of info from england,

one of the biggest sellers of salts in england was t.m pro reef but its seems in england the rising cost of proreef compared to other salts has seen a decline in its sales and some have even reported nitrate and phos in newly mixed batches( not that i have seen this)

4 example on average £60 abucket against £45 for seachem reef

it now seems in england hobbyist are using a variety of different salts such as red sea's new salt, aqua medi and newly to be saled d&d salt all which are being tested by various hobbyist in england