Basic theory and setups, from scratch

[Todd S.]

First off, great forum and great help seems available, I have been watching and reading for some time. This is the forum I will stick with.

I will have the opportunity to establish a nice marine aquarium in the next couple years. It will be at my workplace, and on display to the public. I hope it will be a source of relaxation, meditation and eduction for the people in my community. I have been reading and studying about marine reef aquariums for quite some time, and my question is basically about the few different (I know, there are hundreds) theory's regarding reef keeping.

I will try to keep it simple here. I generally understand the basics, most of the equipment needed, live rock and sand, lighting, flow, temps, filters, sumps.......

My question is regarding the overall setup, as in overall theory.

I have read and mostly understand the GARF theory, utilizing the plenum and the larger "gravel" substrate. It makes sense to me, it appears to work and I have read on this and other forums of people proclaiming success with this practice. The "grunge" and live rock, as well as other parts of the overall plan seem simple enough. Anyone having success with this, what problems can one expect with this "plenum" area below, toxic soup zone-I've heard it called.

Next would be the deep sand bed theory. Seems most common in this forum. I have read most common problems are due to the sand bed not being "stirred" sufficiently. I understand the organisms living in the bed can actully stir the sand if enough organisms are active, and the sand sort of stirs itself. Much more surface area for them to survive on, different size of sand grains for different organisms to survive.

Last, I guess would be the shallow sand bed, or no bed at all, just sand applied to an "artificial" surface, with the LR placed on top. The thin layer of sand can be vacuumed to clean and remove waste.

The aquarium I will hopefully establish could be 300 - 500 gal capacity, or larger. I have had the architect design it as a corner type unit, viewable from the front and one end, as an in wall unit. It will have a large room behind, so an area for sump/equipment is not a factor.

I have at least a year to educate myself further, I really would like to focus on the big picture before I tackle technical specs and equipment. It seems that I am having trouble comparing these methods/theories without running into opinions that are bias depending on what the person is selling. I don't want to say cost is not a factor, however, I can build to suit for the most part.

Sorry for the long first post, I hope I have explained my question as to "theory", I want to get an idea of which way to go before making further decisions.

Thank you all for your help, it's greatly appreciated.

[Ninong]

Hi Todd S.,

Welcome to Reefland!

It will be at my workplace, and on display to the public. I hope it will be a source of relaxation, meditation and eduction for the people in my community.

My primary care physician just opened up a brand new office building and he is installing a 210-gal in-wall reef tank in the waiting room.

I have read and mostly understand the GARF theory, utilizing the plenum and the larger "gravel" substrate.

In my opinion, plenums offer no advantages over sand beds without a plenum. In addition, the larger gravel required for a proper plenum setup is not a suitable substrate for many marine fishes and invertebrates.

It makes sense to me, it appears to work and I have read on this and other forums of people proclaiming success with this practice.

Plenums are rare. They are not in common use at all.

The "grunge" ...

One thing I will say about GARF "grunge" -- they chose an appropriate name for it.

Anyone having success with this, what problems can one expect with this "plenum" area below, toxic soup zone-I've heard it called.

Yes, some people have had success with plenums, provided they are sized properly and set up carefully. Again, there is no proof that plenums are in any way superior to other methods. All that trouble for no additional benefit and some definite drawbacks. Suggested reading: Part One and Part Two. Rob Toonen's homepage. List of Rob's publications.

Next would be the deep sand bed theory. Seems most common in this forum. I have read most common problems are due to the sand bed not being "stirred" sufficiently. I understand the organisms living in the bed can actully stir the sand if enough organisms are active, and the sand sort of stirs itself. Much more surface area for them to survive on, different size of sand grains for different organisms to survive.

Last, I guess would be the shallow sand bed, or no bed at all, just sand applied to an "artificial" surface, with the LR placed on top. The thin layer of sand can be vacuumed to clean and remove waste.

Besides deep sand beds and shallow sand beds, there are also bare-bottom tanks. There are things to be said about all three options. A lot depends on your personal preferences and on what sort of corals you intend to keep. I suggest you keep reading. You will find lots and lots of successful examples of just about every possible option. There is no one right way. What is right in one person's eye might not be right in another's.

The aquarium I will hopefully establish could be 300 - 500 gal capacity, or larger. I have had the architect design it as a corner type unit, viewable from the front and one end, as an in wall unit. It will have a large room behind, so an area for sump/equipment is not a factor.

Make sure that your architect consults with someone familiar with setting up an aquarium of this size. There are a lot of factors that have to be taken into consideration that the average architect won't be aware of unless he/she happens to be a reef hobbyist.

Make sure the architect understand the weight of the aquarium when filled with water and live rock. Make sure the architect knows that there will be about 1-2% evaporation per day, depending on the intensity of your lighting and other factors. Make sure the architect takes that into consideration when designing the ventilation system for your equipment room. Make sure the architect takes into consideration the heat that will be generated by the various pumps and lighting. In short, make sure your architect consults with someone who has done this before.

I have at least a year to educate myself further, I really would like to focus on the big picture before I tackle technical specs and equipment. It seems that I am having trouble comparing these methods/theories without running into opinions that are bias depending on what the person is selling. I don't want to say cost is not a factor, however, I can build to suit for the most part.

You will have to decide for yourself which way you want to go on the substrate. I would only urge you to forget about a plenum. I see no reason for getting into that, especially if this is going to be your first tank and a fairly large one at that. My personal preference would be for a substrate composed of aragonite sand. The exact depth and exact particle size mix would depend on my plans for the tank and my mood at the moment. I would be open to anything from a minimum of 3" deep to 5" deep. I have personally kept a reef tank with a 6" deep sand bed. I think 5" is deep enough but I certainly have nothing against anyone who wants to go with an 8" deep sand bed. So I'm in favor of 3" for some applications and 4-5" for others. I'm not a big fan of shallow sand beds but some folks do like them. A bare bottom tank would be an option for a tank with virtually all SPS corals that the owner wanted to really crank up the volume on the water flow.

Sorry for the long first post, I hope I have explained my question as to "theory", I want to get an idea of which way to go before making further decisions.

Thank you all for your help, it's greatly appreciated.

You have to decide for yourself which way you want to go. For a tank in the 500-gal range, I would include a UV sterilizer and possibly ozone, too. I would definitely go with one of the really expensive protein skimmers. At the present time, I think metal halides (with actinic supplementation) are the only way to go on a tank of that size.

Follow this link to another board. That's an index going back to 2002. Pull up the Tank of the Month feature in each of those monthly online articles and see what equipment is being used. You can skip the tanks smaller than 300 gallons. There are some really nice tanks in the 500-gal size and even some that are larger than 1,000 gallons. Check out those tanks for a good idea of what other people are doing. While you're at it, see how many (if any) plenums you find.

Happy reading!

[Todd S.]

Ninong- exactly what I was after. Great information. Yes it will be my first aquarium, why not go big or go home!!!! I understand that larger volumes are sometimes more stable than small ones.

I will talk to the architect about the topics you have suggested. It will be on a solid concrete floor, so that shouldn't be much of a problem. And I have considered the ventilation and discussed this with him. Power and water utilities will be special to the room, as will drainage and power backup.

I am thinking SPS and softies, some fish or so. You know, I want it all. I understand the problems and difficulties I am facing, but that's what makes this so excitig to me. I will continue to study, in hopes of coming up with the best solution as possible.

It all starts with excellent help from people like you!!!!

[Ninong]

I'll make it easy for you and pick out a few tanks for you to take a look at, starting with this one. Now that's a reef tank! 2,074 gallons total, shallow sand bed.

Steve Weast's first tank, only 500 gallons, shallow sand bed. He has replaced that one with a new, 850 gallon tank. Highly recommended. This guy is an expert on equipment and how to set up a large reef tank. He's a home builder by trade.

Here's another one. 539 gallons, bare bottom.

Here's another one. 525 gallons, deep sand bed.

That will get you started.

[Ninong]

More:

2100 gallons, semi-deep sand bed.

180-gal tank, interesting equipment room, deep sand bed.

650-gal tank, shallow sand bed.

300-gals plus total volume, deep sand bed.

300 gallons, deep sand bed.

[Todd S.]

Unbelievable aquariums. These must be the gold standard, both in design and systems. I guess I do need lots more education. I don't want to fail completely, I know it will be very challenging, but rewarding.

My biggest shortfall was in the lighting category. I had no idea of the amount of lighting these units require. I will continue to research.

I had conversation with a person the other day that had suggested using "solar tubes" to supplement the light during daylight hours, at full sun they produce the same light, according to him, as a 400 - 500 w light, with full natural spectrum. Placed on the roof at the correct angles, he said you should be able to take advantage of a good 6-8 hours of strong light, they use a polished aluminium plenum to bounce the light down, and would produce a natural sunrise-sunset. Anyone ever experiment with this one?
Might be worth a try, obviously as a supplement only.

Again, thanks for the links, and the help, this is the place to go for professional help.

[Ninong]

Unbelievable aquariums. These must be the gold standard, both in design and systems. I guess I do need lots more education. I don't want to fail completely, I know it will be very challenging, but rewarding.

My biggest shortfall was in the lighting category. I had no idea of the amount of lighting these units require. I will continue to research.

You will want to talk with someone (professional installer) who has experience setting up large reef systems. There are many things that I didn't even begin to touch upon, such as automated water change systems, salt mixing systems, etc. As far as automated controls are concerned, the latest and greatest seems to be Biomatix. Look into that. But again, it is critical that you do not attempt this on your own with an architect unfamiliar with all the ins and outs of aquarium design requirements. There are probably several places in Chicago where you can get assistance. I'm not familiar with what's available there.

I had conversation with a person the other day that had suggested using "solar tubes" to supplement the light during daylight hours, at full sun they produce the same light, according to him, as a 400 - 500 w light, with full natural spectrum. Placed on the roof at the correct angles, he said you should be able to take advantage of a good 6-8 hours of strong light, they use a polished aluminium plenum to bounce the light down, and would produce a natural sunrise-sunset. Anyone ever experiment with this one?

Dr. Mac has a few of them over some of his tanks. You might want to give him a call to ask him for his opinion of them. Scroll down that page, there are several photos of these tubes over some of his tanks.

There are several lengthy threads on this topic on Reef Central. This thread was started on Jan. 12, 2002, it includes photos posted by hobbyists who have installed these SolaTubes. The thread goes on and on. On page 40 (sometime in 2007) you will get a new link to the continuation of the thread. There are several other threads on Reef Central. If you run a search, use "SolaTubes" and "Solar Tubes" because those are the two different spellings I have come across.

It seems to me that this is a very interesting proposition but one that is more interesting for folks living in places like San Diego or Miami. Even where I live (southern Louisiana) it would be more interesting than where you live. However, it might be worth your while to at least look into it. I know I would. I may not actually go for it but I would certainly look into it.

Nice 800-gal reef tank in basement. This tank has been in operation at least 12 years.

Here is an 870-gal reef aquarium in Germany that is a neat, commercial-looking, setup. He was RC's August 2006 TOTM.

[TimH07]

About Dr. Mac's solor tubes, when i was there they were over his live rock curing vat. His corals were all under artificial lighting, other than the frags that he grows in the greenhouse which has no light fixtures.