[NanoReefer1]

Very interesting stuff everyone! Great great information! Now I am just beginning on my first Nano Reef (10gal), and the only question I have is if on the first fillup the same process should be followed in how the water was made or if it would be ok to let things sort themselves out in the tank with the live sand, and live rock for the first fillup. Also another question I have is if mixing with a sub propeller is necessary and if mixing by shaking a jug could be an alternative? Like at a half gallon at a time, and then adding to a bigger container and whisking or stirring?

Just wondering.


Thanks!

THE RIG
10 Gallon Tank (From Walmart)
Milliennium 200 Power Filter (160gph)
2 * Hydor Koralia 1 (2 * 400 gph - 3.5 Watts)
Nova Extreme HO Light Fixture - 2 x 24W - T5 24 in.
Visi-Therm Stealth Heater - 100W
Bio-Activ Live Aragonite Black Beach Reef Sand - 20 lb.

[leebca]

I moved your post into its own thread, since it is a special subject.

You posted this in the Saltwater (Fish-Only) Aquariums Forum. That is, this Forum is for those wanting to keep saltwater fishes.

The 10 gallon system, which will hold about 9 or less gallons of water, is not suitable for marine fishes in general. You want to read this: Fish Stocking Limit - for FO and FOWLR

Assuming you do not have any intention of putting marine fish into that display, then I would answer your questions as follows:
You do not want to use the tank as the salt water make up container on the first fill up IF there will be live rock and/or live sand in the tank. If the tank is empty of marine life forms, then it would be okay. Marine life will die if exposed to unmixed or fresh water.
Mixing by hand small batches to put together into a larger container is okay. Just be sure the final holding container has the proper readings for pH, temp. and salinity IF you will be making large water changes. Use tools that will not be affected (corroded, rust, dissolve, etc.) in salt water and use only plastics that don't leach chemicals into the water (most food-grade plastics are okay).

Small batch making may be okay, but you might want to consider just buying already prepared salt water from an LFS or, if near an ocean, find a source for clean natural sea water (NSW). I think if you consider value (expense, time, and quality) of purchasing prepared water vs. your own water, that the most valuable would be to purchase ready made water.

Since you are just starting off, you should give this a close read: Setting Up a FOWLR Aquarium

You won't be adding fish, but the above guideline will be very useful.

For help with a reef system, post in the Reef Aquariums Forum. There are a lot of experienced people to help out here at Reefland!

Good luck!

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by NanoReefer1

...the only question I have is if on the first fillup the same process should be followed in how the water was made or if it would be ok to let things sort themselves out in the tank with the live sand, and live rock for the first fillup.

If I were you, I would mix the saltwater in a separate container first before adding it to the tank.

Also another question I have is if mixing with a sub propeller is necessary and if mixing by shaking a jug could be an alternative? Like at a half gallon at a time, and then adding to a bigger container and whisking or stirring?

I recommend you purchase a 10-gal Rubbermaid Brute container in white, yellow or gray. All Rubbermaid Brute containers in any size, as long as they are white, yellow or gray, are USDA Meat & Poultry Equipment Group listed and certified to NSF International Std. #2.

You should heat the water to the correct temperature first and then add the salt mix gradually, stirring after each addition. Then you should place either a powerhead or an air-stone in the container to aerate it. I usually place the lid loosely over the container so that there is about a half inch space between the lid and the rim to allow for air exchange. Allow the saltwater to age for at least three or four days before using. For your very first fillup, you could use it without aging it.

You could use a smaller container if you like but it should be large enough to accomodate at least three gallons. That would represent about a third of your tank's capacity.

Remember that you will need to check the temperature and salinity of the freshly mixed saltwater to make sure it matches what's already in your tank before making water changes. You might need to check pH also for such a small tank and if doing a relatively large water change. I've never bothered to check pH but I've never had a nano tank. When I add 17 gallons to a 120-gallon tank, it's no big deal. I just make sure the salinity and temperature match.

Bio-Activ Live Aragonite Black Beach Reef Sand - 20 lb.

There is no such thing as "aragonite black beach reef sand." That's an oxymoron. There are black sand beaches but none of them are aragonite. Black sand is volcanic in origin. Aragonite is white. The people selling black sand and calling it aragonite are morons!

You have already learned your first lesson in this hobby: You can't believe the advertising hype because much of it is just plain false. And in some cases it's so stupid it's hilarious!

[NanoReefer1]

Bio-Activ Live® Aragonite Black Beach PremiumLive®Aragonite Reef Sand

• Collected in its natural environment and packaged in its natural state (U.S. Patent #'s: 6,376,299 & 6,939,708)
• Just place in tank, add saltwater (for best results use NutriSeawater®) the add fish, no waiting required.
• Instant ammonia cycling
• Perfect for most applications (except Undergravel filters)
• Reduces algae growth
• Sandsifter safe
• Digger friendly
• Deep sand bed

Item #: 20741
UPC: 029904207414
Grain size: 0.5-1.5mm
Packaged: 4 - 10 lb
(4.54 kg) Bgs/cs.
Net Weight: 40 lbs
18.14 kg Per cs.Item #: 10741
UPC: 029904107417
Grain size: 0.5-1.5mm
Packaged: 2-20 lb
(9.07 kg) Bgs/cs.
Net Weight: 40 lbs
18.14 kg Per cs.
Click here for printable version[link]http://www.naturesocean.com/live_sand.htm[/link]


The part you should pay attention to is this Collected in its natural environment and packaged in its natural state (U.S. Patent #'s: 6,376,299 & 6,939,708)

Therefore...Your wrong.

[zhenya]

Originally Posted by NanoReefer1

The part you should pay attention to is this Collected in its natural environment and packaged in its natural state (U.S. Patent #'s: 6,376,299 & 6,939,708)

Therefore...Your wrong.

It is ludicrous, and no, you are wrong and not Ninong.
Do a search using keyword aragonite and you should get a lot of information regarding this topic. Like this for example.
Don't believe everything you read on the bags.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by NanoReefer1

Bio-Activ Live® Aragonite Black Beach
The part you should pay attention to is this Collected in its natural environment and packaged in its natural state (U.S. Patent #'s: 6,376,299 & 6,939,708)

Therefore...Your wrong.

NanoReefer1,

Are you telling me that I'm wrong?

Do you have any clue whatsoever what you're talking about? Obviously not. Perhaps you are a very young person and are unfamiliar with the concept of false advertising?

There is no such thing as "black aragonite sand."

Aragonite is not black. It's white. All black sand beaches are volcanic in origin. In Hawaii there are white sand beaches and black sand beaches. The black sand is volcanic in origin and the white sand is calcareous.

U.S. Patent# 6,376,299, issued April 23, 2002 is for: Capacitor for semiconductor memory device and method of manufacturing the same

Obviously that patent has nothing to do with sand for aquariums. I wonder why they stuck that one in their ad? If you decide to call them to tell them that we're all laughing at them and their "black aragonite sand," ask them how a patent for a "capacitor for semiconductor memory device and method of manufacturing the same" has anything to do with sand for marine aquariums.

U.S. Patent#6,939,708, issued Sept. 6, 2005, is for: Method of rapid bio-cycling of an aquarium

Abstract

A method of rapid biochemical cycling of aquariums using naturally preserved granular marine substrate material, such as sand or aragonite, to rapidly denitrify the aquatic environment and to establish biochemical conditions that are favorable to the survival and viability of fish, crustaceans, invertebrates, and other marine aquatic life. The method includes the steps of harvesting and packaging marine sand such that marine microorganisms, in the form of biofilm attached to the sand, are preserved with an optimal amount of water and air in retail packaging specifically dimensioned and configured for maintaining ammonia oxidizing bacteria in a state wherein the bacteria are capable of metabolic and physiologic activity after prolonged periods at room temperature. Harvesting and packaging marine microorganisms according to the disclosed method allows for widespread distribution to consumers through conventional retail sales channels. Rapid biochemical cycling of an aquarium is achieved by introducing the contents of the packaging into an aquarium whereby marine microorganism biofilm instantly contributes to establishing a healthy aquatic environment by reducing harmful ammonia levels and through denitrification.

The second patent does not in any way tell you that their black sand is aragonite sand. It isn't. And they would know that if they weren't a bunch of morons!

Let this be a lesson for you. You can't always believe what you read in the advertising copy put out by the various manufacturers who are only interested in separating you from your money.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by zhenya

It is ludicrous, and no, you are wrong and not Ninong.
Do a search using keyword aragonite and you should get a lot of information regarding this topic. Like this for example.
Don't believe everything you read on the bags.

zhenya,

You beat me to it. I took too long looking up the stupid patent numbers the manufacturer threw in their ad.

I wouldn't be too hard on NanoReefer1. He's probably just a young kid and not familiar with just how much of the stuff you read from the manufacturers is just plain BS.

The part about "black aragonite sand" is really a good one. That's hilarious!

I'm tempted to send them an email telling them we're all making fun of them over here for being such a bunch of morons.

[NanoReefer1]

Well I looked under the second patent number (not the non-semi conductor one), and found that basically it is seeded black sand in a bag.


End of story...

Basically got a supped up version of tihitian moon sand....

The only other thing I have to go on is that it says it is 100% natural and alot of people have had success with it before.

Hopefully I will have the same.

Just got my tank up and running 1.028SG but I took the measurement with the heat of the tank being no where near 80 so we will see tomorrow.


More than anything I think earlier I got angry because I feel as though I am being looked down on by some sort of know-it-all kind of attitude. Yea im a beginning aquarist but at the same time I have done hours of reading to just get to this point...

idk...w/e maybe im just being overly sensitive.

[SalTee]

Just to throw in my two cents- don't feel too bad Nanoreefer- even the best can forget that they were beginners once, and your still learning, and I dare ANYBODY in this room to say they've never been fooled by phoney advertising. Peace.