[Future]

At the LFS they simply called this a "Red Plume". I had a small colony years ago and had no problems, however now I'm having an odd issue with this one.

I awoke this morning to the cluster floating in the tank. Obviously I checked out what was going on and found it filled with air. I released the air and fixed it into a position where it wouldn't want to float again just in case. As well I made sure there was no air bubbles being blown and there was no direct flow aimed it's way.

Came home from work and seen it literally filled with more air.

Ummm... what's going on here?
I'm also noticing the water has recently became a tad cloudy. This may just be the difference I'm seeing due to the new T5 lighting and not cleaning the outside of the tank yet.


This is the type of cluster I'm talking about...

[leebca]

I moved your post from the Fish Only Forum to the Reef Aquariums Forum. Those that frequent here know a lot about invertebrates.

[Future]

Thank You.

[Future]

OK, I'm a tad ticked off here now. Over the past few days water tests were within the "OK" ranges, but tonight I just checked again and this cluster had a thick white film. Did the basic tests and Ammonia spiked pretty hard at 2.0ppm.

Needless to say I just yanked that thing out of there and have it in a bucket filled with SW. If it weren't for the snails looking saggy I wouldn't have thought much of it, but would have just waited to get other input on that cluster.

Luckily the snails are starting up the glass again after falling to the substrate. I just did a 25% water change because the chromis were hiding and even the damsel wasn't his peppy self.

Anyone close want this cluster before it goes back to the LFS? lol

[Future]

Looks like I'm fighting a cycle now. At closer look the whole cluster basically died. The bucket has a stench that smells like dead fish.

Unfortunately things are against me as well.

1. It's after 10pm and all stores that would have something to help neutralize the ammonia are closed.
2. I goto work at 6am and don't get back for 16hrs.
3. The wife is going out for a good part of the day, and has no idea about some things.

The only small pluses are. I found a box of Algone and a bottle of tap water chemical. I placed the Algone in my hang on because it states it'll only help neutralize ammonia. As well I can only have the wife grab a bottle of AmQuel, and add per directions.

Looks like I'm probably going to lose it again I can only blame myself for buying that cluster too.

[Future]

Early morning update. Ammonia levels are still high. I've basically began to cycle. I'm actually thinking I've been in a cycle for about a week, it just took that amount of time for me to realize the fact.

I've weight the pro's and con's here as well. Please interject your own if you wish. (I'm open to being called a dumbass too)

Pro's:
1. Bacteria is rebuilding itself on a larger scale.
2. I'm learning only a $75 lesson, but valuable none-the-less.
3. I know the limitation of the tank as far as livestock now. Now I'll be able to get a tad more then before, but I know the exact maximum now.
4. I can now do 3 tests blindfolded.
5. Bristle worm = Doppler Radar!

Con's: (Learning experience)
1. I didn't think ahead properly at the addition when I seen the bristle worm out during the day. I thought of the cluster more as a plant and not a living organism.
2. When I replaced the 3 damsels with 3 smaller Chromis, I didn't factor in that the cluster was actually a much bigger size. The Chromis wouldn't have set an unbalanced load, but the cluster would. because it was a good size piece.
3. I didn't factor in that the cluster came from a LFS. Basically their tank is larger and what they treat the water with is unknown. As well I made the biggest mistake of listening to the guy who said that the cluster did not need any acclimation. (I acclimated anyway, but only temp a 30 minute temp/water drip. I didn't think of the possibility of cycle)
4. I can't fight the cycle. Sure I could try to reseed, but it seems almost pointless to reseed a seeded bed if that makes sense. If I continue to do water changes and such all I'll be doing is prolonging the process.
5. Loss of some livestock. Seems high risk, but so far they are fairing OK. The only thing I'm doing is the Algone pack in a direct overflow so there is a place they can get relief. So far they have been there and doing OK. The snails are fighting through, and the conch looks good staying at the bottom as close to LR as it can.


Learned Experience:
This 36gal. is only good as a "STRICT" FOWLR with a maximum of 5 fish that will not exceed 3" each. Snails and other clean up crew members.
During a cycle the skimmer goes nuts pulling stuff out of the water. (Mine overloaded)
Signs that something isn't right entails Cloudy water, presence of bristle worms during the daylight, snails almost stop moving and try staying at the waterline. (I'm sure the bristle worms will pop out for pellet food, but w/o pellets it's a good sign.)


Have I missed anything so far guys/gals?

[charlie]

Can you refresh my memory and tell me how old this tank is?

[Future]

Roughly 12 years old, but in reality after the 2005 storms down here, It's been established for just over 1 year. The bio-load was always minimal though having just about gave up on it.

[charlie]

What I really don't understand is why this colony would create a small cycle by itself, unless there is something else going on that you can't see. I really think that you should keep up with the water changes tho instead of using the chemicals, solution by dilution

[Future]

I'm at a loss because the colony started floating 2-3 days after I had it in the tank. The only thing I can ration by it all is the odor that emanated from the tank, then the bucket after I took it out.

The only information I've been able to find is that they attach to the undersides of rocks, but I'm thinking that maybe this wasn't a rock per say as opposed to something else that was so encrusted it wasn't visible. To the touch it was soft and sponge-like. If you pressed it a little then air would release from all over. And that's the oddest part. How would something collect air w/o bubbles in the water or direct waterflow that would cause air pockets?

Being the colony is dead now I may break it open tonight just to see what was inside

[charlie]

I think you may have an idea there, possibly something else imported in with the colony???????
If you are gonna break it open, make sure you hold your nose, and wear gloves!!!!!!
How much water do you change at a time?

Pardon me if I take a while to answer, OK, I am in the middle of some tank maint. myself.

[Future]

I've got all day being stuck at work till 11pm so no worries..lol

Lately I've been doing 7gal. a week. (For the past 2-3 months) I don't mix my own yet, so I get 5gal. jugs filled at a LFS. Last night I depleted my last 8gallons so the next change won't get done until after 3pm tomorrow

[charlie]

Up until that ammonia goes down, I would try changing maybe 10. I am sorry, but what else is in the tank. My memory sucks, and it is just as easy to ask again. That way the info is all here in front of us.

[Future]

lol, no problem

1 yellow tail damsel
3 small green chromis
6 snails
1 queen conch (1 inch)
then my 2ft bristle worm (That's another story in another post..ha ha)
2-3in CC substrate
roughly 65-70lbs LR
home made hang-on refugium filled with chaeto and some caulpera
Running a fluval 205
1 PH creating surface tension
basic heater
skimmer for a nano cube
and 48watt total T5 lighting

Hang-on is too small for anything other than macro, but it seems to help a lot in keeping the trates constantly down. I've turned off the lighting for the time being, I figured the stock didn't need the headache of lights right now.

[charlie]

I am gonna stick to my water change theory, no other chemicals, they only get me in trouble, I don't know about you. Whatever died in your tank did nothing to help.

[Future]

As well I'm one of those "No Chemicals" guys, I just needed something for the time being till Sunday because the reading last night had ammonia at 8.0

I started doing water changes as you've seen. The question was really if I should even bother being it's a cycle. IMO I should due to the livestock. Some would say that only prolongs it. Yet it's not a new system and shouldn't need to await seeding and such. Kind of confusing in a way.

I think I'll stick with you here and continue the path I started down with the water changes, this morning the test didn't show 8.0, it was a bit lower more towards the 4.0 side. If anyone survives this my next dread will be any ammonia burns I have to treat. This I may do anyway just to stay ahead of it.

The only bright side of it is if there are casualties, I've got a 2ft bristle that is more than happy to do the clean up.

[Ninong]

If your ammonia is reading 8.0 ppm, then you will have a major problem on your hands as all of that ammonia turns into nitrite.

If I were you, I would do a 50-60% water change, followed by another 50-60% water change the next day. You certain can't hurt anything any more than what the ammonia/nitrite will at those levels.

Good luck!

[charlie]

Originally Posted by Ninong

If your ammonia is reading 8.0 ppm, then you will have a major problem on your hands as all of that ammonia turns into nitrite.

If I were you, I would do a 50-60% water change, followed by another 50-60% water change the next day. You certain can't hurt anything any more than what the ammonia/nitrite will at those levels.

Good luck!

Good point!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Future]

Noted and Appreciated, only it now gets to wait until Sunday afternoon. Obviously the water change last night hasn't done much, but it was better than nothing at all.

At the same time I'm unable to mix my own salt yet and I've been reading up on it this way I'll not need to rely on outside sources. When I first seen that initial 8.0 first instinct was using the last of what I had as a water change.

[Future]

Something else I continued to forget... prior to pulling the cluster out and tossing it into a bucket, the water had what looked like a haze to it. Not cloudy or dirty looking, more like a slight foggy haze that was barely noticeable. I figured I needed to clean the outside of the glass because I hadn't cleaned it when I added the cluster. The water change last night helped clear it a lot.