Current flow cycles???

[Doodaa]

I'm currently upgrading my return pump and am contemplating how to set up the return nozzles. I bought a 1" SCWD and a Pan World 150PS pump to switch the flow around a bit.

I can't seem to find on this forum a suggested water flow pattern. Is there a preferred flow pattern? Circular one way, then the other, total chaos, or what? I know whatever I have planned will probably change due to aquascaping and such to make sure everything gets some flow...I'm just curious about general flow cycles and what experienced people have to say about them.

Thanks

[Ninong]

In my little 120-gal tank, I just went for random flow using two 3/4" Sea-Swirls aimed at each other from opposite ends of the tank plus a 3/4" return aimed along the back wall of the tank behind the live rock.

In really large tanks, I think the Tunze Turbelle Streams with controller would be nice for "wave simulation, foodtimer, operation in night mode, sequential pump circuit and tide simulation." These work especially nice for tanks that are at least 8-ft long.

[Lance]

Well the flow from your return isnt near enough for the main tank and if it does meet the minimum flow rate then your sump or fuge will suffer.The return is for your sumps health and though the little it does add in the main tank should not be factered in . You want a minimum amount of 20 times exchange rate from independent powerheads. And a circular motion from bottom to top is best . It reduces uneatin food and fish waste and other debris from collecting plus aids in your best bio filters , your LR and LS , they need good water movement for best control. I think placement is very important and there are many ways to do this. Pointing at each other would be the worst as it will cause them to collide lowering there effect.

I like to say that whene you feed frozen add extra and whatch how it floats around. It should just float or drop in any areas , rather stay moving and suspended. Low flow areas will collect this and other waste and over time , months to yrs , will collect causeing hard to control water readings.

[Saltie]

So my question is how much flow do you need? I am setting up a 125 gallon with 700 gph from the return pump (1" drain to the sump). I am also plumbing a colsed loop system with two drains and two returns. How much flow do I need for that?

[Ninong]

So my question is how much flow do you need?

That all depends on what you intend to keep in your tank.

[Lance]

The flow from your return is greatly reduced from distance and amount of jets and little by little as it gets dirty. Plus to much flow in your sump or fuge will mean your sump or fuge isnt working to its fulliest and the main tank will suffer. After its all said and done your lucky if you get 200 gph from a 700 gph return pump.
You want a minimum of 20 times exchange in there and whene stock increases maybe 30 or 40 times. So in a 125 times 20 would be 2500 gph. I would use 2 powerheads that equal at least this. Look here,

Advanced Aquarist's Online Magazine - Feature Article: Water Flow is More Important for Corals Than Light, Part V

About.com: http://www.aquariacentral.com/articles/movement.shtml

So my question is how much flow do you need? I am setting up a 125 gallon with 700 gph from the return pump (1" drain to the sump). I am also plumbing a colsed loop system with two drains and two returns. How much flow do I need for that?

[zhenya]

I don't understand why people mention power heads as a means of water circulation/exchange. All they provide is internal turbulence/ flow but not the tanks circulation/water exchange. Depending on what you intend on keeping in the tank you may need circulation amounting to 20, even 40 times( remember-circulation) and that is accomplished with large drain pipes, perhaps even huge skimmers that draw directly from the tank. Or you may not need water circulating this quickly if all you intend to keep is few fish and few soft corals.
Can someone explain to me why people bring up power heads in the tanks circulation equation?

[Saltie]

Thanks, for the input. How powerful (GPH) of a return pump should i use?

My return is about 4 feet above the sump. I have a one inch drain on the built in overflow.

[Ninong]

My return is about 4 feet above the sump. I have a one inch drain on the built in overflow.

You are limited by the capacity of your 1" drain. I would suggest that you not try for more than ~750 gph through the drain. That means that your return pump should be one that provides no more than about 900 gph at 4-ft head. You have to allow for some additional head due to bends in plumbing, etc.

Water movement in the aquarium and water circulation through the sump are two different things that most people add together to come up with what they consider their total water movement. You might have 700 gph through the sump, plus another 1500 gph provided by powerheads or a closed loop system. You could say that your total water movement is then 2200 gph.

Water movement through the sump is more valuable than water movement that does not go through the sump but all of it is good.

[zhenya]

Water movement in the aquarium and water circulation through the sump are two different things that most people add together to come up with what they consider their total water movement.

Now, that makes a whole lot more sense to me. And I agree, all of it is good.

[Lucid]

Ok Im confused now. Wouldn't the circulation from a sump be the same as internal circulation via powerhead(s)? There is nothing different going on in a sump other than housing equipment right?

[Samper]

You have a seperate return pump with a sump system. This pump pushes water to the display. In addition, you have powerheads inside of the display. For me I add up the total water movement in gph. I add the return pump + each additional powerheads flow rates together.

If you want to calculate the gph through the sump then you would just consider your return pump in that equation. Return pump - head = flow rate through the sump. You don't factor the powerheads into it at all for this purpose.

Your display can have a much higher flow rate compared to your sump since it is affected only by the return pump. As Ninong said you would have a total of 2200 gph. Only 700 gph goes through your sump.

[Lance]

IF the flow through the sump is to great then your equipment will not work effeciantly . Around 100 to 300 gph is good.

Ok Im confused now. Wouldn't the circulation from a sump be the same as internal circulation via powerhead(s)? There is nothing different going on in a sump other than housing equipment right?

[Lance]

That 700 gph return pump will be more like 3 or 4 hundred gph at the source of return then as algea builds in the line or pump get dirty this could be less so it isnt a steady consistant source. In a 125 you want a minimum of 2500 gph from 2 seperate independent sources. Or 2 powerheads 1250 gph each or better or 3 or 4 equaling the same. Flow reduces fish waste and uneatin food and other waste from collecting. Then increases the use of LR and LS for bio filtration. Then good flow provides oxygen saturation in the water volume from surface exchange or a gas exchange at the surface. the little amount the return gives only helps. A closed loop system done right could work for main tank flow. I like to say that whene you feed add some extra frozen food and whatch how it floats. It should drop to the bottom or collect in areas. It should stay suspended everywhere.

So my question is how much flow do you need? I am setting up a 125 gallon with 700 gph from the return pump (1" drain to the sump). I am also plumbing a colsed loop system with two drains and two returns. How much flow do I need for that?

[Ninong]

Ok Im confused now. Wouldn't the circulation from a sump be the same as internal circulation via powerhead(s)? There is nothing different going on in a sump other than housing equipment right?

Water going through the sump is exposed to the protein skimmer and possibly carbon and/or an iron oxide phosphate sponge media. Of course, if you have a chiller, then it's also exposed to the chiller. Water that is being pushed around inside the aquarium by a powerhead still provides valuable turbulence but it's not quite the same.

[Ninong]

IF the flow through the sump is to great then your equipment will not work effeciantly . Around 100 to 300 gph is good.

That would be completely inadequate for a 125-gal tank.

[Lance]

As i stated , in a 125 he needs atleast 2500 gph in the display tank. Then a few hundred gph through the sump. More then that would mean the equipment cant work to spec's.

That would be completely inadequate for a 125-gal tank.

[Ninong]

As i stated , in a 125 he needs atleast 2500 gph in the display tank. Then a few hundred gph through the sump. More then that would mean the equipment cant work to spec's.

You recommended 100-300 gph through the sump. That's completely inadequate. I can't let something like that stand without pointing out that it doesn't make sense.

[Lance]

Why is this not enough. Slowly the flow through the sumps gives your equipment time to work. If the water is just rushing by then it cant collect. Well what would be the correct flow rate?

You recommended 100-300 gph through the sump. That's completely inadequate. I can't let something like that stand without pointing out that it doesn't make sense.

[Ninong]

Why is this not enough. Slowly the flow through the sumps gives your equipment time to work. If the water is just rushing by then it cant collect. Well what would be the correct flow rate?

He should be running at least 600 gph through the sump, although 700 to 800 gph would be better. The idea of 100 gph, or even 300 gph, through the sump with a 125-gal tank makes no sense at all.

I don't even understand what you mean when you say the water can't collect. What does that mean? Collect?