2 questions, one thread

[weez1959]

Every (or almost) afternoon I turn off the powerheads and feed the fish with flakes of either prime reef, formula one, formula 2 or spirulina.
I shut off the power heads so the flakes are completely comsumed and nothing is lost in or behind the rocks.

Question 1: Do the flakes still release phosphate into the water for the short time between dropping them in and being eaten?

question 2: Today I saw my male clown grab a large flake and bring it down to the anemone and shove it in his pie hole. Was he really feeding him or is that just a bunch of hooey.

Stupid questions but hey, I'm bored!

[Poseidon]

The PO4 is in the food, and will be released into the tank whether it is eaten or not. So that is a no win situation for you and me, and everyone else.

As for the anemone, I think that could be debated till the cows come home.

[weez1959]

Have P04 tests been done with frozen, fresh, flake food?
Which are the lowest?
Should I limit the flake to 2-3 times a week?

I can see how the clown/anemone thing can be debated, he brought him down a flake but he also went back down a few seconds later and nudged the flake closer to the mouth with his nose hmmm!

[FireEater]

I thought they made phosphate free flakes now? I know when I was buying fish food, before I started making my own, companies were claiming their food was phosphate free.

As for the clown feeding the anemone. I'll debate that they do as I have seen my Tomato Clown in the 29g take chunks of krill or silversides and place them in the anemones mouth. The anemone eats the food.

Now it could actually be this scenario:

Clown: "Ooooooo....feeding time, let me take some extra and store it at home for later."

Anemone: "Oooooooo...feeding time, the clown will bring food home."

Clown: "I'll put this right here for a snack later."

Anemone: "Yum Yum Eat Eat."

*later that evening

Clown: "Hey! Where did my snack go?"

Anemone: "I dunno."

[Ninong]

Question 1: Do the flakes still release phosphate into the water for the short time between dropping them in and being eaten?

No.

question 2: Today I saw my male clown grab a large flake and bring it down to the anemone and shove it in his pie hole. Was he really feeding him or is that just a bunch of hooey.

According to people whose entire lives have been devoted to the study of anemonefishes in the wild, this behavior is not observed in situ. It is commonly observed in home aquariums but not in the wild.

Many of the fishes that we keep exhibit behaviors in captivity that they do not exhibit in the wild. This is especially true when it comes to feeding behaviors. For one thing, fishes may have to change their feeding habits to adapt to what is available in their new captive environment. They most certainly are forced to adapt to the feeding schedule employed by their caregivers. Fishes such as anthias and fairy wrasses that are used to feeding constantly all day long are forced to made do with less frequent feedings. They should be fed several times a day but some hobbyists may feed them only once or twice a day.

In the case of anemonefishes, they are used to feeding on tiny zooplankton that happen to pass by their home base, plus nearby benthic algae and benthic microcrustaceans. They do not stray far from home. The food that they eat in the wild isn't large enough to take back "home" and share with their "landlord." Besides, their "landlord" doesn't need to be fed by them because he/she is feeding all day long, too.

It happens in captivity but apparently not in the wild. Why is that? One theory is that the clownfish is simply taking the food home to save it for later and doesn't understand that it will be eaten by the anemone. People who have observed this behavior in their own aquariums tend to discount this theory. They tend to think that it is a deliberate act and that the clownfish intends for the food to be eaten by the anemone. Assuming that is the case, then the follow-up question is why does the clownfish do this in captivity but not in the wild. Could it be that the clownfish understands that the anemone hasn't been eating all day long either? Does the clownfish understand that it is in its best interest to keep its "landlord" fed and healthy?

Who knows.

[zhenya]

I would also like to add another question: when anemonefish adapts a surrogate host does it attempt to feed it as well?
I had seen my clark's grab some large pieces of food and then spit it out/shove it into the tentacles of the anemone. Since I have tons of the anemones I have not ever seen it attempt to "shove" food in ALL of the anemones, just the one that it is happen to be near by.
I really don't believe it is trying to feed the anemones in my tank ( I do that ), but I can;t offer any guesses as to why it is doing what it is doing with the food.

[Ninong]

I would also like to add another question: when anemonefish adapts a surrogate host does it attempt to feed it as well?

That's an interesting question. If the surrogate host is another anemone, let's say Condylactis gigantea, then the answer is probably yes. In the case of Condy anemones as substitute hosts for clownfishes, I have read many a post over the years along the lines of, "my Condy ate my clownfish." I don't remember reading any reports of Condy anemones eating adult-sized Clark's, tomatoes, saddlebacks, maroons, etc. The reports that I remember reading involved juvenile clownfish. I don't believe Ocellaris or Percula clowns (juveniles or adults) will accept a Condy as a host but maybe one just happened to get too close.

So, assuming you have a Clark's clownfish that has accepted a Condy anemone as a surrogate host, then maybe it's feeding the Condy in self-defense? Maybe that explains this behavior in all instances? The clownfish, knowing that the anemone is hungry, is feeding it to keep from being eaten???

I had seen my clark's grab some large pieces of food and then spit it out/shove it into the tentacles of the anemone. Since I have tons of the anemones I have not ever seen it attempt to "shove" food in ALL of the anemones, just the one that it is happen to be near by.

I have read posts by guys who have more than one anemone in their tank to the effect that their clownfish only feeds the anemone that it resides in and not the empty-nest anemone at the other end of the tank.

...but I can;t offer any guesses as to why it is doing what it is doing with the food.

What we really need to know is what happens when a clownfish adopts something other than an anemone as its host. Let's say you have a clownfish in your tank that is feeding its host anemone. You then remove the anemone and replace it with a Goniopora sp. coral, something that most clownfish readily go to for shelter when there is no suitable anemone available. Does the behavior stop or does the clownfish attempt to "feed" the Goniopora?

[zhenya]

What we really need to know is what happens when a clownfish adopts something other than an anemone as its host. Let's say you have a clownfish in your tank that is feeding its host anemone. You then remove the anemone and replace it with a Goniopora sp. coral, something that most clownfish readily go to for shelter when there is no suitable anemone available. Does the behavior stop or does the clownfish attempt to "feed" the Goniopora?

That is exactly what I meant by mentioning surrogate host. Clownfish in captivity adapts many "other" things in the tanks as a host in the absence of the true host anemone. Anywhere from large feather dusters to Elegance coral, and Goniopora like you mentioned already. I would love to know if the clownfish indeed attempts to "feed" it;s host then or just "forgets" all about it.

I have read posts by guys who have more than one anemone in their tank to the effect that their clownfish only feeds the anemone that it resides in and not the empty-nest anemone at the other end of the tank.

Since most of my anemones have been visited at least once (or twice ) by my Clark's anemonefish I must say that those observations wouldn't apply to my tank. It resides in all of them at one point or another. I have seen it go from one to next five or ten in a span of 2-3 minutes. And I mean it just visiting and not staying for very long.

PS> I need to borrow my brother-in-law's video camera and shoot some footage of this crazy fish, it is sure to make a few people laugh...

[Ninong]

That is exactly what I meant by mentioning surrogate host. Clownfish in captivity adapts many "other" things in the tanks as a host in the absence of the true host anemone. Anywhere from large feather dusters to Elegance coral, and Goniopora like you mentioned already. I would love to know if the clownfish indeed attempts to "feed" it;s host then or just "forgets" all about it.

Gene,

I imagine that it might try to feed an elegance coral but I would be surprised if it tried to "feed" a Goniopora. We could do a search on RC to see if we can find posts that answer this exact question???