Nassarius Snails

[BigLar]

Are there snails that look like Nassarius, but predators? Today I got some Nassarius (I hope) from my LFS and the guy said that they eat coral (he didn't know what they were called). I told him that I never heard of this and bought them anyway. Are there snails that look like Nassarius, but are predators?

Also, how big can Nassarius snails get? I saw one that was about 2" long. I didn't think they got this big. I didn't buy it because I wanted to make sure it was actually a Nassarius. It looked like all the ones I've seen in pictures with the breathing tube.

[reefhead]

the species are called Whelks and yes they will eat the crap out of corals, be careful!!!

As for the size of nass. Im not sure.

You wanna make sure your snail has a groove near the aperture for it to be a Nass.

Good luck,
Joe

P.s. get those snails in your sump for now

P.s.s. If your have a pic snap one of the botton side and send it to Dr.Ron

[thumb]

If your snails are Ilyanassa obsoleta what ever you do DO NOT SEND HIM A PICTURE OR EVEN TELL HIM YOU HAVE ANY!!!!! YOU WILL REGRET IT!!!!

[BubbaWPB]

If your snails are Ilyanassa obsoleta what ever you do DO NOT SEND HIM A PICTURE OR EVEN TELL HIM YOU HAVE ANY!!!!! YOU WILL REGRET IT!!!!

Ok... why will you regret it?

[thumb]

Dr Ron has deceided that because of where this snail is found that people who sell it are immoral and people who own it are at best uninformed. Some of his ditto heads are outright attacking people over it. You are much better off being the only Steeler fan at a Browns game!

[Ninong]

Ok... why will you regret it?

For whatever reason, thumb has decided to dig up five very old threads that discuss Ilyanassa obsoleta snails. Some of the threads he has posted to go back to July 2001 so his comments can't be taken as a serious attempt to offer timely advice. His comments about Dr. Ron Shimek seem to me to be a gross exaggeration of the facts.

Dr. Shimek wrote an article several years ago recommending Nassarius vibex snails as a good choice for people who choose to have deep sand beds in their reef aquaria. These snails are carrion eaters and because they burrow in the top layer of the sand bed, they provide beneficial bioturbation of the substrate.

Some hobbyists have asked Dr. Ron if the related species, Ilyanassa obsoleta, would be a good substitute for N. vibex and Dr. Ron has offered his professional advice that I. obsoleta is not a good choice.

Here is a typical response from Dr. Ron to someone asking this question:

Well, Ilyanassa obsoleta are not Nassarius, but close relatives.

They are partially predatory unlike true Nassarius, and they normally live at lower than reef temperatures. When placed in a reef tank their life span is dramatically lowered as they basically are running at about 180% to 200% of their normal metabolic rate.

Secondly, they may well attack sessile animals if not well fed.

Thirdly, in a number of areas these high intertidal animals are vectors for a number of flukes that parasitize birds. The fluke intermediate life stages will infect the snails, and then exit them "en masse" when they reach the end of that life stage. It is quite likely that if you have your hands in the tank at those times you will get an aquarium version of "swimmer's itch."

The parasite stages will not survive in your or your other aquarium animals, nonetheless they may well burrow into the skin of fish or yourself.

They are a cheap alternative to an animal that is already inexpensive. Tossing them into an reef aquarium is deterimental to them, and may be detrimental to the aquarium in general.

I'll add this for your consideration: Ilyanassa obsoleta is the natural host for at least 9 different species of detrimental trematodes. Studies indicate that more than half of the adult snails will contain these parasites.

[thumb]

"Well, Ilyanassa obsoleta are not Nassarius, but close relatives"
OK but who care?
Secondly, they may well attack sessile animals if not well fed.
I guess you can say this about anything! But in several years of watching hunderds of these snails in many types of marine tanks I have never seen it happen.
"Thirdly, in a number of areas these high intertidal animals are vectors for a number of flukes that parasitize birds. The fluke intermediate life stages will infect the snails, and then exit them "en masse" when they reach the end of that life stage. It is quite likely that if you have your hands in the tank at those times you will get an aquarium version of "swimmer's itch."
Maybe but since many things in the tank can do the same ( how about bristle worms, they will make you dance!!!) Who knows?
"The parasite stages will not survive in your or your other aquarium animals, nonetheless they may well burrow into the skin of fish or yourself"
And maybe the parasite stages will turn into silver dollars. Do not rule that out at this point.
"They are a cheap alternative to an animal that is already inexpensive. Tossing them into an reef aquarium is deterimental to them, and may be detrimental to the aquarium in general"
First of all "tossing them into a reef aquarium" is the very worst thing you can do to snails, what you do not kill right then has internal damage and will die long before its time!!
This is a very sensitive animal and needs at least the same care as any other in the tank.
"an animal that is already inexpensive"
Here lies some of the problem! To me a few dollars a pound compared to a few dollars each is not inexpensive.

[Ninong]

OK but who care?

It's helpful to know the difference between these two different snails because they have different feeding habits. They are not only different species, but different genera.

I guess you can say this about anything!

If you wish to be seen as serious, you should only say it about omnivores or carnivores, not "anything."

And maybe the parasite stages will turn into silver dollars.

Obviously you do not wish to be seen as serious.

First of all "tossing them into a reef aquarium" is the very worst thing you can do to snails...

That was a metaphorical comment that was not intended to be taken literally. Perhaps Dr. Ron should be more careful next time and consider the possibility that some readers may not be familiar with his credentials and may actually think that he meant that comment literally. Proper acclimation of mollusks is described in detail by Dr. Ron in his forum.

To me a few dollars a pound compared to a few dollars each is not inexpensive.

Anyone who pays "a few dollars each" for Nassarius vibex is paying too much. They can be had at several sources for less than a dollar each. As far as Ilyanassa obsoleta is concerned, they can be found for free all along the East Coast and along the West Coast from Morro Bay north to Canada. In fact, their population density around the south part of San Francisco Bay is as high as 1,000 per square meter.

[thumb]

"Some of the threads he has posted to go back to July 2001 so his comments can't be taken as a serious attempt to offer timely advice."
This one I had to check out Ninong, I did not understand it now I do. I found if someone makes a statement you do not agree with, you have starting out putting them down for not doing a search of pass posts on the subject. Now it is clear no matter what is done it will be used against them.

[Ninong]

If your snails are Ilyanassa obsoleta what ever you do DO NOT SEND HIM A PICTURE OR EVEN TELL HIM YOU HAVE ANY!!!!! YOU WILL REGRET IT!!!!

Why would you post this in a thread that hasn't been active since July 6, 2001?

[Ninong]

"Some of the threads he has posted to go back to July 2001 so his comments can't be taken as a serious attempt to offer timely advice."
This one I had to check out Ninong, I did not understand it now I do. I found if someone makes a statement you do not agree with, you have starting out putting them down for not doing a search of pass posts on the subject. Now it is clear no matter what is done it will be used against them.

Why do you think that posting facts concerning Ilyanassa obsoleta is somehow "against them," whatever that means?

And why would you suddenly dig up five different threads that are inactive to post negative comments about Dr. Ron and anyone you describe as "his dittoheads?"

What's that all about?

[thumb]

Ninong,
The only comment that has any weight in your last post is "Perhaps Dr. Ron should be more careful next time and consider the possibility that some readers may not be familiar with his credentials"
Ninong,
Dr Ron has very little experence with todays reef tank. His comments are from the days when it was not possible to find out by watching them in a tank. Going by where animals came from was about all they had to go on. Today Joe Blow and his reef tank has much more to go on than the Phd sitting behind the desk.

[Reefland]

"Some of the threads he has posted to go back to July 2001 so his comments can't be taken as a serious attempt to offer timely advice."
This one I had to check out Ninong, I did not understand it now I do. I found if someone makes a statement you do not agree with, you have starting out putting them down for not doing a search of pass posts on the subject. Now it is clear no matter what is done it will be used against them.

It appears to me that your intent was to possibly push some snails by replying to all of the threads that have been discussed on this specific subject. Instead of replying to 4 different threads, some of which were very old, you could have replied to one of them or started a new one to discuss the subject. If you wish to continue on this particular subject, please start a new thread and stick to the subject.

[Ninong]

"Some of the threads he has posted to go back to July 2001 so his comments can't be taken as a serious attempt to offer timely advice."
This one I had to check out Ninong, I did not understand it now I do. I found if someone makes a statement you do not agree with, you have starting out putting them down for not doing a search of pass posts on the subject. Now it is clear no matter what is done it will be used against them.

It's obvious that your purpose in searching for these old threads wasn't to seek advice but to express your opinions about Dr. Ron Shimek.

Your very first post in these five different threads was in the For Sale forum. It's obvious from this post of yours that, in your own mind at least, you already knew everything you wanted to know about Ilyanassa obsoleta:

Hello Ken,
What a great thread! As you have said time and again the owners of these snails are almost always very satisfied and I also have seen first hand and in many of his works Dr. Ron steps way over the line in stating what will happen in a reef tank by how the animal is found in nature. But one thing is for sure it has it has given him a huge following by the "I read it so it must be true" folks.
Any one who reads up on this snail can also plainly see because of its plankton stage all it takes is one good predator to keep it out of a region. Or of coarse there is countless other factors involved. Yet Dr Ron has deceided it is the temp.
The fact that this snail is found in tropical mangrove swamps in Florida and in tropical areas of East Africa does not seem to change his stance even though it is clear his calls are causing more harm in aquaria circles than good. Does this have anything to do with Dr Ron being a diver and has not shown any interest in swamps and lagoons?
Who has found that a marine animal, fish etc. that is found in one temp. will not do well if not better in any other temp when it is being moved to the reef tank? I do not think it is Dr Ron, he does not have any personal reef tanks. ( or so he told me in person 10/05) Also as far as I know Dr Ron has not published any thing about how marine snails have adapted to living in a reef tank, yet now he is becoming the last word.
Dr Ron has stated many times that a great deal of invertebrates are not suitable for reef tanks because cheap hard shell snails to feed them is not available. Yet when confronted with this tremendous benefit of the Ilyanassa obsoleta he refuses to comment. (also great puffer food guys)
It is like Ninong using the Premium Aquatics story. Premium Aquatics replaced the I. obsoleta with N. vibex because Premium Aquatics sold them as N. vibex. Now it is told as if it is because I. obsoleta is not a reef tank snail. The story can be safely misused like this because most big snail sellers want nothing to do with I. obsoleta, 1 reason is there is little or no profit in it.
I hope more people realize reef keeping is a new frontier and there is many more opinons than facts and that many of these these opinons are being stated as facts. I have a brother and a sister inlaw that both are marine biology professors. They know less than a person with a month of experence owning a reef tank about having and maintaining a reef tank. Most of the books my brother studied to get his Phd were written before scuba diving and my brother is 20 years youger than Dr Ron!
We have just begain to know to keep reef aquariums and to observe the effect of water chemistry and or temerature. Very few books are in print that make use of this raw new data. Even though the best years of this new break thru in marine animal keeping( the last ten years) Dr Ron has not had his own reef tank he has become the guru of reef tank animals.